What will it take for an SEOP area team to rise up to state-level competitor?

[CuckooNest]

I think the participation might be from parents not allowing their sons to play football I have talked to a few who have said this

I get that. Although most of us survived playing with minor aches and pains, football can result in serious injury (ie Eric Wallace).

This is why the NFL and college football have taken such a strong approach in removing, as much as possible, the extremely violent contact to the head and/or to “defenseless” players.

We should start with flag only until 5-6 grade. I think you’ll see tackle before that outlawed by state legislature in the next 3-5 years.

[Wings Teaford]

It will take a steady diet of cattleballs and squats where the boys hit their roids in the floor

[Howard Cosell]

With the exception of Wings Teaford and his usual idiocy this is actually a decent topic.

The hard part for so many fan bases is being willing to accept one of those “boring offenses”. Everyone thinks their local HS should run what the Buckeyes run on Saturday.

[RBH23]

I think the participation might be from parents not allowing their sons to play football I have talked to a few who have said this

I get that. Although most of us survived playing with minor aches and pains, football can result in serious injury (ie Eric Wallace).

This is why the NFL and college football have taken such a strong approach in removing, as much as possible, the extremely violent contact to the head and/or to “defenseless” players.

We should start with flag only until 5-6 grade. I think you’ll see tackle before that outlawed by state legislature in the next 3-5 years.

Flag football is a great way for younger kids to start learning the game. Plus, it’s a lot of fun!

Wish they had that back in the day!

[RBH23]

With the exception of Wings Teaford and his usual idiocy this is actually a decent topic.

The hard part for so many fan bases is being willing to accept one of those “boring offenses”. Everyone thinks their local HS should run what the Buckeyes run on Saturday.

Good point.

I actually read comments from “fans” complaining about how boring Kirtland’s offense is to watch. I believe the person was watching a Kirtland game for the first time to see what the hype was about.

He basically said that the offense is obviously successful but watching Kirtland play was a snooze fest!

[efarns]

Professional teams are paid for winning and losing, so they have every reason to do what wins, and none of them runs a basic offense. Major college sports have millions of dollars riding on outcomes and commit millions of dollars to making that happen. There have been division I NCAA football teams that have great coaches and highly recruited athletes who committed to a triple option offense, and they don't win national championships. I believe if the entire region committed to run the triple option for the next ten years, we would have the same number of state championships that we do now.

If you want to re-create Kirtland's program, consider . . . .The average price of a home in Kirtland is around $350,000. Just affording to live in the district makes it every bit as exclusive as an expensive private school in many places. You have high-achieving families in a tight community with lots of resources to pour into their children's football prospects. I don't know how many of Kirtland's students are an hour a way from school with families scraping by to get necessities, much less pour a lot of money into sports programs. I live in Northern Ohio now. Last night, I took my son to a baseball clinic that runs for the next seven weeks to get pitching instruction - baseball in January. While he was doing that, I was watching two indoor lacrosse and two indoor soccer games going on in the part of the facility we were in. And that's just a small part of the facility - The parking lot was full of cars - athletes getting extra work in, and where is a kid from Racine or Logan going to go to get that kind of work? Does that kind of facility exist in Southern Ohio? So, if Kirtland is your model for success, don't just look at their playbook.

[RBH23]

Professional teams are paid for winning and losing, so they have every reason to do what wins, and none of them runs a basic offense. Major college sports have millions of dollars riding on outcomes and commit millions of dollars to making that happen. There have been division I NCAA football teams that have great coaches and highly recruited athletes who committed to a triple option offense, and they don't win national championships. I believe if the entire region committed to run the triple option for the next ten years, we would have the same number of state championships that we do now.

If you want to re-create Kirtland's program, consider . . . .The average price of a home in Kirtland is around $350,000. Just affording to live in the district makes it every bit as exclusive as an expensive private school in many places. You have high-achieving families in a tight community with lots of resources to pour into their children's football prospects. I don't know how many of Kirtland's students are an hour a way from school with families scraping by to get necessities, much less pour a lot of money into sports programs. I live in Northern Ohio now. Last night, I took my son to a baseball clinic that runs for the next seven weeks to get pitching instruction - baseball in January. While he was doing that, I was watching two indoor lacrosse and two indoor soccer games going on in the part of the facility we were in. And that's just a small part of the facility - The parking lot was full of cars - athletes getting extra work in, and where is a kid from Racine or Logan going to go to get that kind of work? Does that kind of facility exist in Southern Ohio? So, if Kirtland is your model for success, don't just look at their playbook.

Here we go with the money…

Kirtland has never been poor, but had zero playoff wins before Tiger came to town. Burg and IHS in the 80’s and 90’s would have beaten Kirtland like a rented mule! How come Kirtland’s money was producing winners then? And if money was the answer, why are Indian Hill, Sycamore, Mason, Loveland…. Not dominating football in SW Ohio? Hell, Sycamore even lost to IHS in a regular season game!

Btw, if SEO’s money problems are the issue, how has Burg created the most dominating D3 softball team in the state? A sport like softball is typically more successful in wealthier areas (more so than football), yet Burg is the big dog.

As for basic offense, it has worked at every level in Ohio high school sports. Good blocking and the ability to run has always proven successful at nearly every level of football, but especially so in high school. The challenge is that it takes a coach who can instill the discipline.

[efarns]

Professional teams are paid for winning and losing, so they have every reason to do what wins, and none of them runs a basic offense. Major college sports have millions of dollars riding on outcomes and commit millions of dollars to making that happen. There have been division I NCAA football teams that have great coaches and highly recruited athletes who committed to a triple option offense, and they don't win national championships. I believe if the entire region committed to run the triple option for the next ten years, we would have the same number of state championships that we do now.

If you want to re-create Kirtland's program, consider . . . .The average price of a home in Kirtland is around $350,000. Just affording to live in the district makes it every bit as exclusive as an expensive private school in many places. You have high-achieving families in a tight community with lots of resources to pour into their children's football prospects. I don't know how many of Kirtland's students are an hour a way from school with families scraping by to get necessities, much less pour a lot of money into sports programs. I live in Northern Ohio now. Last night, I took my son to a baseball clinic that runs for the next seven weeks to get pitching instruction - baseball in January. While he was doing that, I was watching two indoor lacrosse and two indoor soccer games going on in the part of the facility we were in. And that's just a small part of the facility - The parking lot was full of cars - athletes getting extra work in, and where is a kid from Racine or Logan going to go to get that kind of work? Does that kind of facility exist in Southern Ohio? So, if Kirtland is your model for success, don't just look at their playbook.

Here we go with the money…

Kirtland has never been poor, but had zero playoff wins before Tiger came to town. Burg and IHS in the 80’s and 90’s would have beaten Kirtland like a rented mule! How come Kirtland’s money was producing winners then? And if money was the answer, why are Indian Hill, Sycamore, Mason, Loveland…. Not dominating football in SW Ohio? Hell, Sycamore even lost to IHS in a regular season game!

Btw, if SEO’s money problems are the issue, how has Burg created the most dominating D3 softball team in the state? A sport like softball is typically more successful in wealthier areas (more so than football), yet Burg is the big dog.

As for basic offense, it has worked at every level in Ohio high school sports. Good blocking and the ability to run has always proven successful at nearly every level of football, but especially so in high school. The challenge is that it takes a coach who can instill the discipline.

I can't help that you don't know how statistics work.

[CuckooNest]

Professional teams are paid for winning and losing, so they have every reason to do what wins, and none of them runs a basic offense. Major college sports have millions of dollars riding on outcomes and commit millions of dollars to making that happen. There have been division I NCAA football teams that have great coaches and highly recruited athletes who committed to a triple option offense, and they don't win national championships. I believe if the entire region committed to run the triple option for the next ten years, we would have the same number of state championships that we do now.

If you want to re-create Kirtland's program, consider . . . .The average price of a home in Kirtland is around $350,000. Just affording to live in the district makes it every bit as exclusive as an expensive private school in many places. You have high-achieving families in a tight community with lots of resources to pour into their children's football prospects. I don't know how many of Kirtland's students are an hour a way from school with families scraping by to get necessities, much less pour a lot of money into sports programs. I live in Northern Ohio now. Last night, I took my son to a baseball clinic that runs for the next seven weeks to get pitching instruction - baseball in January. While he was doing that, I was watching two indoor lacrosse and two indoor soccer games going on in the part of the facility we were in. And that's just a small part of the facility - The parking lot was full of cars - athletes getting extra work in, and where is a kid from Racine or Logan going to go to get that kind of work? Does that kind of facility exist in Southern Ohio? So, if Kirtland is your model for success, don't just look at their playbook.

Here we go with the money…

Kirtland has never been poor, but had zero playoff wins before Tiger came to town. Burg and IHS in the 80’s and 90’s would have beaten Kirtland like a rented mule! How come Kirtland’s money was producing winners then? And if money was the answer, why are Indian Hill, Sycamore, Mason, Loveland…. Not dominating football in SW Ohio? Hell, Sycamore even lost to IHS in a regular season game!

Btw, if SEO’s money problems are the issue, how has Burg created the most dominating D3 softball team in the state? A sport like softball is typically more successful in wealthier areas (more so than football), yet Burg is the big dog.

As for basic offense, it has worked at every level in Ohio high school sports. Good blocking and the ability to run has always proven successful at nearly every level of football, but especially so in high school. The challenge is that it takes a coach who can instill the discipline.

If that’s all then why hasn’t someone from outside the area come down and went on a run of state titles? Discipline is important but talent has to be there too.

[RBH23]

Professional teams are paid for winning and losing, so they have every reason to do what wins, and none of them runs a basic offense. Major college sports have millions of dollars riding on outcomes and commit millions of dollars to making that happen. There have been division I NCAA football teams that have great coaches and highly recruited athletes who committed to a triple option offense, and they don't win national championships. I believe if the entire region committed to run the triple option for the next ten years, we would have the same number of state championships that we do now.

If you want to re-create Kirtland's program, consider . . . .The average price of a home in Kirtland is around $350,000. Just affording to live in the district makes it every bit as exclusive as an expensive private school in many places. You have high-achieving families in a tight community with lots of resources to pour into their children's football prospects. I don't know how many of Kirtland's students are an hour a way from school with families scraping by to get necessities, much less pour a lot of money into sports programs. I live in Northern Ohio now. Last night, I took my son to a baseball clinic that runs for the next seven weeks to get pitching instruction - baseball in January. While he was doing that, I was watching two indoor lacrosse and two indoor soccer games going on in the part of the facility we were in. And that's just a small part of the facility - The parking lot was full of cars - athletes getting extra work in, and where is a kid from Racine or Logan going to go to get that kind of work? Does that kind of facility exist in Southern Ohio? So, if Kirtland is your model for success, don't just look at their playbook.

Here we go with the money…

Kirtland has never been poor, but had zero playoff wins before Tiger came to town. Burg and IHS in the 80’s and 90’s would have beaten Kirtland like a rented mule! How come Kirtland’s money was producing winners then? And if money was the answer, why are Indian Hill, Sycamore, Mason, Loveland…. Not dominating football in SW Ohio? Hell, Sycamore even lost to IHS in a regular season game!

Btw, if SEO’s money problems are the issue, how has Burg created the most dominating D3 softball team in the state? A sport like softball is typically more successful in wealthier areas (more so than football), yet Burg is the big dog.

As for basic offense, it has worked at every level in Ohio high school sports. Good blocking and the ability to run has always proven successful at nearly every level of football, but especially so in high school. The challenge is that it takes a coach who can instill the discipline.

If that’s all then why hasn’t someone from outside the area come down and went on a run of state titles? Discipline is important but talent has to be there too.

Ironton is the most talented team in D5. Kirtland’s talent is not in the same ballpark, hence why they run their “boring” offense. They simply don’t have the athletes for the spread.

[RBH23]

Professional teams are paid for winning and losing, so they have every reason to do what wins, and none of them runs a basic offense. Major college sports have millions of dollars riding on outcomes and commit millions of dollars to making that happen. There have been division I NCAA football teams that have great coaches and highly recruited athletes who committed to a triple option offense, and they don't win national championships. I believe if the entire region committed to run the triple option for the next ten years, we would have the same number of state championships that we do now.

If you want to re-create Kirtland's program, consider . . . .The average price of a home in Kirtland is around $350,000. Just affording to live in the district makes it every bit as exclusive as an expensive private school in many places. You have high-achieving families in a tight community with lots of resources to pour into their children's football prospects. I don't know how many of Kirtland's students are an hour a way from school with families scraping by to get necessities, much less pour a lot of money into sports programs. I live in Northern Ohio now. Last night, I took my son to a baseball clinic that runs for the next seven weeks to get pitching instruction - baseball in January. While he was doing that, I was watching two indoor lacrosse and two indoor soccer games going on in the part of the facility we were in. And that's just a small part of the facility - The parking lot was full of cars - athletes getting extra work in, and where is a kid from Racine or Logan going to go to get that kind of work? Does that kind of facility exist in Southern Ohio? So, if Kirtland is your model for success, don't just look at their playbook.

Here we go with the money…

Kirtland has never been poor, but had zero playoff wins before Tiger came to town. Burg and IHS in the 80’s and 90’s would have beaten Kirtland like a rented mule! How come Kirtland’s money was producing winners then? And if money was the answer, why are Indian Hill, Sycamore, Mason, Loveland…. Not dominating football in SW Ohio? Hell, Sycamore even lost to IHS in a regular season game!

Btw, if SEO’s money problems are the issue, how has Burg created the most dominating D3 softball team in the state? A sport like softball is typically more successful in wealthier areas (more so than football), yet Burg is the big dog.

As for basic offense, it has worked at every level in Ohio high school sports. Good blocking and the ability to run has always proven successful at nearly every level of football, but especially so in high school. The challenge is that it takes a coach who can instill the discipline.

I can't help that you don't know how statistics work.

I understand statistics quite well. Do you want me to actually do a regression analysis to show you why you are wrong?

I have an older version of Minitab on my work computer, so that should do. Will take some time to gather the median income data by town/city to correlate against state titles. Private schools will make this a little tricky but will most likely have to default to the median income where the school is located.

[efarns]

You can do that, and maybe we'll both learn something. But other people have done similar research, which I have posted, and you always just disregard it. I appreciate you starting to show some willingness to look at data, but this is also you admitting you formed a conclusion before having the data. I will remind you that I said IF YOU WANT TO USE KIRTLAND AS YOUR MODEL, you need to consider ALL of the conditions you need to re-create. You don't have to use Kirtland.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7713000065

I will throw you this bone - Yes! Winning sports programs do attract more families to a school district. They will pay more to live in a district where their child has a good chance to win a championship . . . so the winning coach and program obviously have to come first. But then, it's almost a private school situation, where everybody who wants that experience is excluded because they can't afford to buy a home in the school district. So money does become a factor. And also . . . Let's say Meigs high school magically hires Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots staff . . . Where in Pomeroy are all these new families going to have to go to find work? You have to have some kind of economic base in your area.

Yes, Wheelersburg won a state championship. I'm sure the coaches taught their players to block pretty good. But before and after that, they aren't able to teach blocking and tackling as good as they did before? Trimble won a state semifinal game a few years ago, so I guess their coach can teach how to block pretty good, but now they haven't been out of the region in several years, and are even struggling to win The TVC. Did their coaches forget how to teach those kids how to tackle? No. I'm sure they are great coaches who are performing great work through the natural ebb and flow that most high school programs experience with population variation.

Enjoy your research, but it's already being done.

https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/sch ... l-success/

"The average percentage of low-income students at large Texas high schools that have won state football championships since 1994 is 23%, according to the Statesman analysis. The largest Central Texas high schools with the lowest rates of student poverty (one third or fewer of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches), won 59% of their varsity football games between 2008 and 2018. During that same time period, large Central Texas high schools with the highest rates of poverty (at least two-thirds of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches) won 36% of their games."

[RBH23]

You can do that, and maybe we'll both learn something. But other people have done similar research, which I have posted, and you always just disregard it. I appreciate you starting to show some willingness to look at data, but this is also you admitting you formed a conclusion before having the data. I will remind you that I said IF YOU WANT TO USE KIRTLAND AS YOUR MODEL, you need to consider ALL of the conditions you need to re-create. You don't have to use Kirtland.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7713000065

I will throw you this bone - Yes! Winning sports programs do attract more families to a school district. They will pay more to live in a district where their child has a good chance to win a championship . . . so the winning coach and program obviously have to come first. But then, it's almost a private school situation, where everybody who wants that experience is excluded because they can't afford to buy a home in the school district. So money does become a factor. And also . . . Let's say Meigs high school magically hires Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots staff . . . Where in Pomeroy are all these new families going to have to go to find work? You have to have some kind of economic base in your area.

Yes, Wheelersburg won a state championship. I'm sure the coaches taught their players to block pretty good. But before and after that, they aren't able to teach blocking and tackling as good as they did before? Trimble won a state semifinal game a few years ago, so I guess their coach can teach how to block pretty good, but now they haven't been out of the region in several years, and are even struggling to win The TVC. Did their coaches forget how to teach those kids how to tackle? No. I'm sure they are great coaches who are performing great work through the natural ebb and flow that most high school programs experience with population variation.

Enjoy your research, but it's already being done.

https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/sch ... l-success/

"The average percentage of low-income students at large Texas high schools that have won state football championships since 1994 is 23%, according to the Statesman analysis. The largest Central Texas high schools with the lowest rates of student poverty (one third or fewer of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches), won 59% of their varsity football games between 2008 and 2018. During that same time period, large Central Texas high schools with the highest rates of poverty (at least two-thirds of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches) won 36% of their games."

I read these articles. The question is “did you?”

The first states that in the state of New York, after schools win state titles in football, their property values go up. In other words, winning football makes a town richer. It is not saying that rich towns are winning!

The second article you’re shared before. The analysis is flawed since they cherry picked data by focusing only on two of the divisions in Texas football. Didn’t consider ALL divisions in doing their analysis. I could prove the world is flat and grass is purple if allowed to cherry pick my data.


Finally, I’ll ignore Kirtland and give you another school to prove my point. Hilliard Davidson!

This school has never been poor, but wasn’t a football power until Brian White took over as coach. Yes, Brian White who played at Burg under Ed Miller. He implemented Ed’s style to perfection: running team excellent at blocking and tackling. With that, Hilliard won multiple D1 state titles and I believe five regional titles.

Then Brian White retired and the Hilliard Davidson football team went a different direction with their approach. The results? Absolutely terrible. The program is a complete mess.

Hilliard’s finances didn’t change. Only thing that changed is that they moved away from the style of football under White that made them successful.

If Tiger retires, and Kirtland tries to be a spread team, you’ll see the same collapse.

[fbnut]

You can do that, and maybe we'll both learn something. But other people have done similar research, which I have posted, and you always just disregard it. I appreciate you starting to show some willingness to look at data, but this is also you admitting you formed a conclusion before having the data. I will remind you that I said IF YOU WANT TO USE KIRTLAND AS YOUR MODEL, you need to consider ALL of the conditions you need to re-create. You don't have to use Kirtland.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7713000065

I will throw you this bone - Yes! Winning sports programs do attract more families to a school district. They will pay more to live in a district where their child has a good chance to win a championship . . . so the winning coach and program obviously have to come first. But then, it's almost a private school situation, where everybody who wants that experience is excluded because they can't afford to buy a home in the school district. So money does become a factor. And also . . . Let's say Meigs high school magically hires Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots staff . . . Where in Pomeroy are all these new families going to have to go to find work? You have to have some kind of economic base in your area.

Yes, Wheelersburg won a state championship. I'm sure the coaches taught their players to block pretty good. But before and after that, they aren't able to teach blocking and tackling as good as they did before? Trimble won a state semifinal game a few years ago, so I guess their coach can teach how to block pretty good, but now they haven't been out of the region in several years, and are even struggling to win The TVC. Did their coaches forget how to teach those kids how to tackle? No. I'm sure they are great coaches who are performing great work through the natural ebb and flow that most high school programs experience with population variation.

Enjoy your research, but it's already being done.

https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/sch ... l-success/

"The average percentage of low-income students at large Texas high schools that have won state football championships since 1994 is 23%, according to the Statesman analysis. The largest Central Texas high schools with the lowest rates of student poverty (one third or fewer of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches), won 59% of their varsity football games between 2008 and 2018. During that same time period, large Central Texas high schools with the highest rates of poverty (at least two-thirds of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches) won 36% of their games."

I read these articles. The question is “did you?”

The first states that in the state of New York, after schools win state titles in football, their property values go up. In other words, winning football makes a town richer. It is not saying that rich towns are winning!

The second article you’re shared before. The analysis is flawed since they cherry picked data by focusing only on two of the divisions in Texas football. Didn’t consider ALL divisions in doing their analysis. I could prove the world is flat and grass is purple if allowed to cherry pick my data.


Finally, I’ll ignore Kirtland and give you another school to prove my point. Hilliard Davidson!

This school has never been poor, but wasn’t a football power until Brian White took over as coach. Yes, Brian White who played at Burg under Ed Miller. He implemented Ed’s style to perfection: running team excellent at blocking and tackling. With that, Hilliard won multiple D1 state titles and I believe five regional titles.

Then Brian White retired and the Hilliard Davidson football team went a different direction with their approach. The results? Absolutely terrible. The program is a complete mess.

Hilliard’s finances didn’t change. Only thing that changed is that they moved away from the style of football under White that made them successful.

If Tiger retires, and Kirtland tries to be a spread team, you’ll see the same collapse.

whites davidson teams beat teams on a regular basis that his teams didnt belong on the field with talent wise

[efarns]

I did not say that a district just needs to be affluent to have football success, so you can have fun with that straw man all you want.

[RBH23]

I did not say that a district just needs to be affluent to have football success, so you can have fun with that straw man all you want.

You’ve disagreed with me that coaching is the most important factor, and you keep referring back to income.

[RBH23]

You can do that, and maybe we'll both learn something. But other people have done similar research, which I have posted, and you always just disregard it. I appreciate you starting to show some willingness to look at data, but this is also you admitting you formed a conclusion before having the data. I will remind you that I said IF YOU WANT TO USE KIRTLAND AS YOUR MODEL, you need to consider ALL of the conditions you need to re-create. You don't have to use Kirtland.


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 7713000065

I will throw you this bone - Yes! Winning sports programs do attract more families to a school district. They will pay more to live in a district where their child has a good chance to win a championship . . . so the winning coach and program obviously have to come first. But then, it's almost a private school situation, where everybody who wants that experience is excluded because they can't afford to buy a home in the school district. So money does become a factor. And also . . . Let's say Meigs high school magically hires Bill Belichick and the New England Patriots staff . . . Where in Pomeroy are all these new families going to have to go to find work? You have to have some kind of economic base in your area.

Yes, Wheelersburg won a state championship. I'm sure the coaches taught their players to block pretty good. But before and after that, they aren't able to teach blocking and tackling as good as they did before? Trimble won a state semifinal game a few years ago, so I guess their coach can teach how to block pretty good, but now they haven't been out of the region in several years, and are even struggling to win The TVC. Did their coaches forget how to teach those kids how to tackle? No. I'm sure they are great coaches who are performing great work through the natural ebb and flow that most high school programs experience with population variation.

Enjoy your research, but it's already being done.

https://stories.usatodaynetwork.com/sch ... l-success/

"The average percentage of low-income students at large Texas high schools that have won state football championships since 1994 is 23%, according to the Statesman analysis. The largest Central Texas high schools with the lowest rates of student poverty (one third or fewer of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches), won 59% of their varsity football games between 2008 and 2018. During that same time period, large Central Texas high schools with the highest rates of poverty (at least two-thirds of students receiving federally-subsidized lunches) won 36% of their games."

I read these articles. The question is “did you?”

The first states that in the state of New York, after schools win state titles in football, their property values go up. In other words, winning football makes a town richer. It is not saying that rich towns are winning!

The second article you’re shared before. The analysis is flawed since they cherry picked data by focusing only on two of the divisions in Texas football. Didn’t consider ALL divisions in doing their analysis. I could prove the world is flat and grass is purple if allowed to cherry pick my data.


Finally, I’ll ignore Kirtland and give you another school to prove my point. Hilliard Davidson!

This school has never been poor, but wasn’t a football power until Brian White took over as coach. Yes, Brian White who played at Burg under Ed Miller. He implemented Ed’s style to perfection: running team excellent at blocking and tackling. With that, Hilliard won multiple D1 state titles and I believe five regional titles.

Then Brian White retired and the Hilliard Davidson football team went a different direction with their approach. The results? Absolutely terrible. The program is a complete mess.

Hilliard’s finances didn’t change. Only thing that changed is that they moved away from the style of football under White that made them successful.

If Tiger retires, and Kirtland tries to be a spread team, you’ll see the same collapse.

whites davidson teams beat teams on a regular basis that his teams didnt belong on the field with talent wise

Yes!

https://247sports.com/college/ohio-stat ... 38649/Amp/

[efarns]

I did not say that a district just needs to be affluent to have football success, so you can have fun with that straw man all you want.

You’ve disagreed with me that coaching is the most important factor, and you keep referring back to income.

I did not say that a district just needs to be affluent to have football success, so you can have fun with that straw man all you want.

You’ve disagreed with me that coaching is the most important factor, and you keep referring back to income.

No. I never have said it was or it wasn't. I have said that demographics matter.

[RBH23]

I did not say that a district just needs to be affluent to have football success, so you can have fun with that straw man all you want.

You’ve disagreed with me that coaching is the most important factor, and you keep referring back to income.

I did not say that a district just needs to be affluent to have football success, so you can have fun with that straw man all you want.

You’ve disagreed with me that coaching is the most important factor, and you keep referring back to income.

No. I never have said it was or it wasn't. I have said that demographics matter.

You stated above that if you want to get Kirtland results you need Kirtland money! You said nothing about the coach. Btw, the ONLY coach who has had any success at Kirtland. How come those resources didn’t help prior coaches?

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

If we are talking offense that might work for some of the struggling teams as far as offense goes I would go with the old single wing.
Great book on the offense.
https://shop.denison.edu/products/piper-book