SoutheasternOhioPreps.com

Posted: **Sun Jan 29, 2023 5:52 pm**

Boys draw is next Sunday at 2p (Feb-05).

Prior to the official SEDAB Seeding, I'll post 2 mock brackets based on Martin RPI rankings as the mock seeding.

1 today and 1 next Sunday morning.

+/- on the left are changes in the rankings from the prior week.

Posted: **Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:37 pm**

Is there an explanation somewhere as to how the RPI is established? It’s further off this week than last week.

Posted: **Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:50 pm**

Hookshot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:37 pm Is there an explanation somewhere as to how the RPI is established? It’s further off this week than last week.

It literally is counted by your strength of schedule and who you beat

Since it is based purely in math, it isn’t swayed by recent wins or really head to head. Like, Marietta over Warren or Unioto over Alexander/Jackson, it just takes into account the whole season and quality of opponents.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:48 am**

Hookshot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:37 pm Is there an explanation somewhere as to how the RPI is established? It’s further off this week than last week.

Care to elaborate on which teams are way off?

I've went up and down the brackets a few times and don't see any extreme outliers. Maybe a team could move up or down 1-2 spots max but I don't see anything other than that.

Honestly, it's night and day better than the results I see each year because of certain coaching voting off emotion or lack of research.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:56 am**

bbjunky81 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:48 am
Hookshot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:37 pm Is there an explanation somewhere as to how the RPI is established? It’s further off this week than last week.
Care to elaborate on which teams are way off?

I've went up and down the brackets a few times and don't see any extreme outliers. Maybe a team could move up or down 1-2 spots max but I don't see anything other than that.

Honestly, it's night and day better than the results I see each year because of certain coaching voting off emotion or lack of research.

I completely agree that there are probably only a few that could move 1-2 spots max, but I will say sometimes those 1-2 spots are so crucial. Crucial in terms of travel and who you might end up playing. I just think there are outliers in anything that determines what these seeds are going to be. My only knock on RPI right now is it has no way to determine what the SOS is in terms of teams losing players/ players being out sick things like that. Unless it does and I just dont know about it.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:00 am**

Hookshot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:37 pm Is there an explanation somewhere as to how the RPI is established? It’s further off this week than last week.

https://martinrpi.com/about-2/

So what is RPI? In general, RPI (Ratings Percentage Index) is a quantity used to rank sports teams based upon a team’s wins, losses, its strength of schedule, and its opponents’ strength of schedule. There are currently eight states (Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon, Utah, & Washington) that use RPI to rank teams in order to seed/rank teams for postseason tournaments in a manner that is fair, uniform, and completely objective.

Martin RPI Formula = (WP x 35%) + (OWP x 35%) + (OOWP x 25%) + (SSF x 5%)

WP: winning percentage. Just your good ol’ wins and losses.

OWP: average of your opponents’ winning percentages. Calculating the averages of each of your opponents’ winning percentages will give you a slightly different result than if you find the OWP by adding the total number of wins by all your opponents, total number of losses by all your opponents, and finding the winning percentage that way (this is due to the varying number of games each opponent has played. If each of your opponents have played the same number of games, the result will be the same using both methods). If calculating on your own, be sure to average the winning percentages of each of your opponents and not the other way.

OOWP: opponents’ average opponents’ winning percentage. An example for this would be like saying Ohio State gets more points for beating a 15-3 Michigan State team than Dayton would get for beating a 15-3 Davidson team. This is because Michigan State’s 15 wins come against much tougher opponents playing in the Big Ten than Davidson’s opponents in the Atlantic 10 Conference.

SSF: School Size Factor. It’s a leveled point system which makes it slightly more beneficial to play schools larger than you. Table for how that works:
D1: 5.5
D2: 5.0
D3: 4.5
D4: 4.0

For each opponent you’ve played, you’d average these values to obtain your SSF, which makes up 5% of the RPI.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:07 am**

If you look at the Girls seeding. The coaches basically follow the Win/Loss records.

In the current seeding process, very few of these coaches are taking into account things like strength of schedule, injured players, etc.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:20 am**

Tri-StateYouthSports wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:00 am
Hookshot wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:37 pm Is there an explanation somewhere as to how the RPI is established? It’s further off this week than last week.
https://martinrpi.com/about-2/

So what is RPI? In general, RPI (Ratings Percentage Index) is a quantity used to rank sports teams based upon a team’s wins, losses, its strength of schedule, and its opponents’ strength of schedule. There are currently eight states (Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Kentucky, North Carolina, Oregon, Utah, & Washington) that use RPI to rank teams in order to seed/rank teams for postseason tournaments in a manner that is fair, uniform, and completely objective.

Martin RPI Formula = (WP x 35%) + (OWP x 35%) + (OOWP x 25%) + (SSF x 5%)

WP: winning percentage. Just your good ol’ wins and losses.

OWP: average of your opponents’ winning percentages. Calculating the averages of each of your opponents’ winning percentages will give you a slightly different result than if you find the OWP by adding the total number of wins by all your opponents, total number of losses by all your opponents, and finding the winning percentage that way (this is due to the varying number of games each opponent has played. If each of your opponents have played the same number of games, the result will be the same using both methods). If calculating on your own, be sure to average the winning percentages of each of your opponents and not the other way.

OOWP: opponents’ average opponents’ winning percentage. An example for this would be like saying Ohio State gets more points for beating a 15-3 Michigan State team than Dayton would get for beating a 15-3 Davidson team. This is because Michigan State’s 15 wins come against much tougher opponents playing in the Big Ten than Davidson’s opponents in the Atlantic 10 Conference.

SSF: School Size Factor. It’s a leveled point system which makes it slightly more beneficial to play schools larger than you. Table for how that works:
D1: 5.5
D2: 5.0
D3: 4.5
D4: 4.0

For each opponent you’ve played, you’d average these values to obtain your SSF, which makes up 5% of the RPI.

I stand by my concerns with the Martin RPI. There are key factors not included. A win or loss in the first week or two, for example, should not be weighed equally with the past month of games. In addition, there may be other factors (a key injury or illness that helped lead to 2 or 3 losses) early in the season that impacted the W-L record. Why wouldn't you want these issues at least considered? Just my observations.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:35 am**

Hookshot wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:20 am

I stand by my concerns with the Martin RPI. There are key factors not included. A win or loss in the first week or two, for example, should not be weighed equally with the past month of games. In addition, there may be other factors (a key injury or illness that helped lead to 2 or 3 losses) early in the season that impacted the W-L record. Why wouldn't you want these issues at least considered? Just my observations.

I'm not sure how in the world any analytics could possibly add in what you're trying to consider. I'm also quite certain majority of coaches don't even look at those things either.

Years ago back when they had the draw in person I have sat in the rooms where coaches vote. I can assure you that the majority of coaches give no consideration to anything at all other than win/loss record, which is a shame because strength of schedule should be some type of factor.

While the Martin RPI is not perfect, it is much better than the current system IMO. A team might be 1-2 spots off in their system, but I can recall certain situations where coaches have misplaced teams by 4-5 spots because they either a.) didn't even consider strength of schedule or b.) had coaches group together to avoid a team/matchup entirely. Neither should happen, but they do often in the current system.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:55 am**

No poll is perfect. This Martin RPI is as good as any of the others, though being an Ironton fan, I don’t like the Tigers behind Gallia after beating them twice this year, home and away.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:23 pm**

pembrook burrows III wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2023 10:55 am No poll is perfect. This Martin RPI is as good as any of the others, though being an Ironton fan, I don’t like the Tigers behind Gallia after beating them twice this year, home and away.

There is zero excuse for Gallia Academy being ahead of Ironton. Also, not sure why Vinton County is behind 3 or 4 other teams, including Marietta, Warren, Gallia, etc. And why wouldn't Marietta on the other hand be ahead of some of them, including Warren who they have a better record and beat them by 21 points last week.

How does the Martin RPI consider out of state opponents in its strength of schedule metric?

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 1:28 pm**

It's impossible for coaches to accurately seed teams. There is no way for them to watch them all, let alone know their injury situations etc... Typically, if two teams are similar record wise, you are going to vote a team from your conference above a team from another conference. At least when it was done in person, you had to do it with the other coaches in the room. This system is and always has been flawed.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 8:54 pm**

The irony... some of you can get on here and praise some coaches for the jobs they do and then talk about them as if they don't know the teams they're voting on. Many do know. Most know more than the keyboard warriors.
Some are corrupt. Some vote according to different criteria than others. Some make it political. Some hold personal grudges. But for you to claim that they don't think or consider factors like SOS, injuries, recent wins/losses etc. is moronic. The people on this site can think of those things but the coaches don't or can't? Right...

Also, I think allowing the coaches to see and interpret the MartinRPI rankings is another metric and tool that can help them properly seed teams.

Posted: **Mon Jan 30, 2023 9:05 pm**

Posted: **Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:06 am**

Each coach will look out for their team and the best match up, even it means not giving your "buddy" a seed that they are waiting. YOUR TEAM SHOULD ALWAYS BE #1

Posted: **Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:53 pm**

I look for Valley to be pushed for the #3 seed in D3. Their schedule is stronger than the two teams that are #4 and #5 even though they have lost 5 games. Those teams probably would also have 5 losses if they played Minford twice.

Posted: **Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:29 am**

I believe you can’t vote for your own team. This has changed the voting somewhat.

Posted: **Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:12 am**

E High wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:29 am I believe you can’t vote for your own team. This has changed the voting somewhat.

They also drop the highest and lowest vote too. So, if one coach decides to just stick it to someone, then it will get thrown out

Posted: **Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:00 am**

Many times over the years they vote on record alone ignoring leagues and strength of schedule. We’ll see ..

Posted: **Thu Feb 02, 2023 11:13 am**

hoot wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:00 am Many times over the years they vote on record alone ignoring leagues and strength of schedule. We’ll see ..

If you look at the girls draw, that is pretty spot on.

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