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Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:17 pm
by ShooterFlatch
Having read the Burg-HP thread, you can see that is already getting ugly with the talks of Prep shouldn't be in the tournament, glorified aau, etc etc. Here was my thought and if you hate it, that's fine but just was something that came to mind. In Kentucky, they do the All-A classic which is the state tournament for the smaller schools outside of the combined version of all sizes at the end of the regular season. In Kentucky, during the All-A, even private school A schools participate, so what I was potentially suggested for Ohio would be a bit different. First and foremost I believe the All-A is not directly or officially affiliated with the KHSAA, but is still widely recognized and a tremendous honor. Okay, enough rambling here is my thought, how about having a similar "All-A" tournament as Kentucky does but it being an "All Public" tournament and crown a public school state champion sometime in the middle of the season. One problem that came to mind while typing this was the game limitations in Ohio, where a tournament of this magnitude would be harder to pull off with the 22 game hamstring the state puts on us here in Ohio, compared to 30 in across the river.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:30 pm
by TVC
Just put private schools in their own division and stop open enrollment.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
by Ed Ott
Keep everything as is but make a D5. To be D5 you must have less than 400 boys in your school and all eligible players started at your school by Day 1 of 9th grade....and have never left and then returned.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:00 am
by N2Hoops
Ed Ott wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Keep everything as is but make a D5. To be D5 you must have less than 400 boys in your school and all eligible players started at your school by Day 1 of 9th grade....and have never left and then returned.
Interesting take.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:41 am
by Tri-StateYouthSports
Harvest prep has a base enrollment of 73 & competitive balance addition of 120 (total 193). That means at a minimum that they have 24 players that live outside of their "district" boundaries.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:52 am
by yabbadabbadoo
Ed Ott wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Keep everything as is but make a D5. To be D5 you must have less than 400 boys in your school and all eligible players started at your school by Day 1 of 9th grade....and have never left and then returned.
You would have to make exceptions to that last line. What if a kid’s family just moved to the district his Sophomore year because his Dad or Mom got transferred to the area but then moved again his Junior year but then they moved back you’re saying he can’t play his Senior year because they moved ?
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:11 pm
by greygoose
TVC wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:30 pm
Just put private schools in their own division and stop open enrollment.
Why stop open enrollment?? Curious because there's times where there's a lot more to it then someone wanting to go to this school because they have a better program. Some reason that's what everyone always believes or thinks without knowing anything of a situation.
As far as private schools yeah they should have their own division and they all should be lumped into 1 tournament regardless of size.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:42 pm
by winningaintcheap
I would be in favor of separating the two, but there really aren’t many private schools outside of the massive ones in the big cities. Harvest Prep, DeSales, and SVSM are really the only schools that the SEOhio teams ever run into. Chillicothe has 28 from competitive balance - the same for Cincinnati Elder. Fairfield Union has 29 additional from competitive balance, the most in the Southeast District and more than any team in the East district.
With that said, there are schools like SVSM with 103 added. I think the best resolution would be to separate competitive balance as a percentage of total enrollment, not just by adding numbers.
70% of students “in district” - D1
80% - D2
90% - D3
98% and up - D4
This would allow for kids to open enroll for reasons other than sports, but also pays attention to kids flocking to schools strictly for sports. Besides, I would imagine that doing a full separation would make for a very weak public tournament.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:03 pm
by Ed Ott
yabbadabbadoo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:52 am
Ed Ott wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Keep everything as is but make a D5. To be D5 you must have less than 400 boys in your school and all eligible players started at your school by Day 1 of 9th grade....and have never left and then returned.
You would have to make exceptions to that last line. What if a kid’s family just moved to the district his Sophomore year because his Dad or Mom got transferred to the area but then moved again his Junior year but then they moved back you’re saying he can’t play his Senior year because they moved ?
No, of course he could play, his team would be in D1-D4 depending on male numbers
No one is moving anywhere for jobs in SE Ohio lol.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:48 pm
by TheFlyingDutchman
Love that idea greygoose,
St. Joe could play Cincinnati Elder
Potrsmouth ND could play St.Iggy
Brilliant !!!!
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:13 pm
by yabbadabbadoo
Ed Ott wrote: ↑Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:03 pm
yabbadabbadoo wrote: ↑Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:52 am
Ed Ott wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Keep everything as is but make a D5. To be D5 you must have less than 400 boys in your school and all eligible players started at your school by Day 1 of 9th grade....and have never left and then returned.
You would have to make exceptions to that last line. What if a kid’s family just moved to the district his Sophomore year because his Dad or Mom got transferred to the area but then moved again his Junior year but then they moved back you’re saying he can’t play his Senior year because they moved ?
No, of course he could play, his team would be in D1-D4 depending on male numbers
No one is moving anywhere for jobs in SE Ohio lol.
That is probably true. Lol
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:21 pm
by mhs95_06
ShooterFlatch wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:17 pm
Having read the Burg-HP thread, you can see that is already getting ugly with the talks of Prep shouldn't be in the tournament, glorified aau, etc etc. Here was my thought and if you hate it, that's fine but just was something that came to mind. In Kentucky, they do the All-A classic which is the state tournament for the smaller schools outside of the combined version of all sizes at the end of the regular season. In Kentucky, during the All-A, even private school A schools participate, so what I was potentially suggested for Ohio would be a bit different. First and foremost I believe the All-A is not directly or officially affiliated with the KHSAA, but is still widely recognized and a tremendous honor. Okay, enough rambling here is my thought, how about having a similar "All-A" tournament as Kentucky does but it being an "All Public" tournament and crown a public school state champion sometime in the middle of the season. One problem that came to mind while typing this was the game limitations in Ohio, where a tournament of this magnitude would be harder to pull off with the 22 game hamstring the state puts on us here in Ohio, compared to 30 in across the river.
So would the public school of Africentric get to play in the "All-Public tourney"?
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:13 am
by greygoose
TheFlyingDutchman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:48 pm
Love that idea greygoose,
St. Joe could play Cincinnati Elder
Potrsmouth ND could play St.Iggy
Brilliant !!!!
Thanks, if you can't figure out how to manage them then they can just end their season after last regular season game. It's always funny when guys try and pick out a huge team against a tiny team and say see, yeah they're hours apart and wouldn't play for couple rounds. You want to be private that's what you get, not here to handle private schools with kiddie gloves like we do.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:59 pm
by TheFlyingDutchman
Ok so ISJ vs ND then who would they play.
If a school is cheating fine punish them.
Not sure punishing all private schools because of a few that dance around the rules.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:11 pm
by Chieftain2009
You can't just say throw all private schools in one division. First of all, starting up this discussion yet again, is ridiculous. You want everything to be fair, but throwing every private into one division isn't fair either. I think it should be kept the way it is. But, when you bring up this argument of "You want to be private that's what you get" is absurd. Schools like Fairfield Christian and Fisher Catholic pull kids from Fairfield County (Lancaster).
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:33 pm
by Beagle12
Here is an idea that i have. Keep the divisions the same. Split up the private and public schools for the tournament.. Have each division play until there are two public and two private schools left at each division. Let these teams go to the Schott. On Thursday and Friday have the teams play for the public and private school state championships.
On Saturday, have the winners play for the overall state championship at each level. This would have the same number of teams and games at the State Championships. You would also have a public school, a private school and an overall state championship team at each division.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:37 pm
by Raider6309
Beagle12 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:33 pm
Here is an idea that i have. Keep the divisions the same. Split up the private and public schools for the tournament.. Have each division play until there are two public and two private schools left at each division. Let these teams go to the Schott. On Thursday and Friday have the teams play for the public and private school state championships.
On Saturday, have the winners play for the overall state championship at each level. This would have the same number of teams and games at the State Championships. You would also have a public school, a private school and an overall state championship team at each division.
Then they will cry about losing to public school Africentric
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:47 pm
by Chieftain2009
Raider6309 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:37 pm
Beagle12 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:33 pm
Here is an idea that i have. Keep the divisions the same. Split up the private and public schools for the tournament.. Have each division play until there are two public and two private schools left at each division. Let these teams go to the Schott. On Thursday and Friday have the teams play for the public and private school state championships.
On Saturday, have the winners play for the overall state championship at each level. This would have the same number of teams and games at the State Championships. You would also have a public school, a private school and an overall state championship team at each division.
Then they will cry about losing to public school Africentric
Don't always agree with you Raider, but you hit the nail on the head with that one.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:19 pm
by 12gauge
What if the public school is mainly comprised of kids from out of district.
Re: Public vs. Private , the continuous conflict.
Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:07 am
by greygoose
You guys worry so much about the fairness of private schools and not lumping them into 1. They aren't governed by the same rules when it comes to recruiting they ALL can recruit so if 1 is doing it and someone isn't that's on them. Fact is private schools need their own governing body and they can figure out how they want to do their tournament. I guess from my stance you can't complain about them on one hand and then say "oh but we need to be fair to them in another". Here's an idea to be "fair", if a private school is adhering to the public schools rules and there's no recruiting then allow them to play in tournament with public schools, I mean if they are abiding by the same set of rules then sure let them play in the same tournament. If you have private schools recruiting and not abiding by the same set of rules then they go into their own tournament.
Is Africentric a public school?? Haven't looked them up or anything if that is the case then how exactly are they so dominate and getting these players. Curious.