What have we created?

[Frank Reagan]

I have watched upwards of 25 basketball games so far this year. Boys, girls, high school and junior high. Does anyone commit a foul? Commit traveling? Not by the reactions of the player getting whistled. It is way, way fewer that think they are innocent of every foul and perfect on every drive than ones that admit it. Boys more often than girls. The worst I’ve witnessed so far this season was a young man who was called for probably two traveling calls and two fouls. His frustration rose so high, he nearly came unglued when he missed a free throw late in a tight game. Shortly after his missed free throw, he almost cost his team the game when he got whistled for an intentional foul for a forearm that took his opponent to the ground trying to inbound the ball. And guess what, he was dumbfounded for the intentional foul call. Who is to blame? Parents? Coaches? Officials? The kids? I am at a loss. It that we’re my child acting like that, he would be so far in the dog house, I would be embarrassed to admit he was mine. Just wondering if anyone else thinks this is getting out of hand?

[Truth&fiction]

I have watched upwards of 25 basketball games so far this year. Boys, girls, high school and junior high. Does anyone commit a foul? Commit traveling? Not by the reactions of the player getting whistled. It is way, way fewer that think they are innocent of every foul and perfect on every drive than ones that admit it. Boys more often than girls. The worst I’ve witnessed so far this season was a young man who was called for probably two traveling calls and two fouls. His frustration rose so high, he nearly came unglued when he missed a free throw late in a tight game. Shortly after his missed free throw, he almost cost his team the game when he got whistled for an intentional foul for a forearm that took his opponent to the ground trying to inbound the ball. And guess what, he was dumbfounded for the intentional foul call. Who is to blame? Parents? Coaches? Officials? The kids? I am at a loss. It that we’re my child acting like that, he would be so far in the dog house, I would be embarrassed to admit he was mine. Just wondering if anyone else thinks this is getting out of hand?

I have watched about the same number of games and what you are saying I have seen as isolated. I have witnessed a lot of good sportsmanship from players . I have seen players talking and smiling on the foul line . I have seen good jester by a number of teams . Pats on the back instead of taunting . Yes there are a few that no matter what will complain. or rough foul in frustration . That has always happened as long as this old man can remember. It all starts at home with teaching kids respect and should be emphasized by the coaching staff. From my view I am proud to watch High School Basketball in Southeast Ohio . I t does not take long to see who is doing it right . They are the ones people like to support. Maybe some Ts or ejections would be good medicine for the soul. Merry Christmas to all !

[Ironman92]

On the other end the guard for Miami Trace (#1 I think) he was being hounded by Jackson’s top defender. He went over to bench during a free throw...Jackson player went with him. He then got his water bottle and again Hackson player went with him. He looked at Jackson kid (who was about 12 inches away) and asked if he wanted a drink. Jackson boy nodded and MT player squirted his water bottl into the opponents mouth. It was great. He also helped control tempers of his teammates that were close to losing it in a tight game.

[formerfcfan]

Kid probably plays AAU or OYB and picked it up from there. AAU has never been about enforcing rules, just a cash grab.

I know of a school that hired a coach who only ever did AAU, and despite the fact he was notorious for being a primadonna on the sidelines in AAU, they thought he was a good fit. Obviously histrionics, arm flailing and yelling be damned. First game, he got a technical foul. Third game, he got ejected on the basis of two technical fouls. Long story short, guy got fired because he thought he could act the way he did in AAU when it came to NFHS/OHSAA.

[BigBlueNation]

I agree with Truth&fiction as it being isolated. Most of the stuff I've seen is from losing teams. Don't see much of this stuff from the better programs.

[The Flash]

And it goes even farther back to the forum about Coach Davis and Chesapeake. You won’t see Davis’s kids, Norm’s kids, or Lafon’s kids acting like that. Teaching Discipline is necessary early and often

[Truth&fiction]

Kid probably plays AAU or OYB and picked it up from there. AAU has never been about enforcing rules, just a cash grab.

I know of a school that hired a coach who only ever did AAU, and despite the fact he was notorious for being a primadonna on the sidelines in AAU, they thought he was a good fit. Obviously histrionics, arm flailing and yelling be damned. First game, he got a technical foul. Third game, he got ejected on the basis of two technical fouls. Long story short, guy got fired because he thought he could act the way he did in AAU when it came to NFHS/OHSAA.

Most kids that are good plays AAU or Travel OYB to better their game . Not saying that some organizations are not cash grab but not all. Big AAU organization seems to fit what you are talking about . Comes down to the kids and if they are taught respect and they carry that not only on the court but their everyday life. As far as the AAU coach getting a high school varsity job when he or she has no other experience it's in my opinion not good . Could be exceptions so I will not comment any further .

[Big cat]

In the olden days when a player was called for a foul, the player would raise their hand. And generally not complain.
What ever happened to hand raising?

[mlittle]

In the olden days when a player was called for a foul, the player would raise their hand. And generally not complain.
What ever happened to hand raising?

Bad ref's

[efarns]

Something I like about our team is how the coaches handle this. When one of our players gets called for an infraction and looks to the coach, instead of seeing the coach work the ref to protest the call, the coach shows the player what they need to do better. Other teams think the refs favor us, but it's all about the coaching.

Of course, a player who wasn't coachable wouldn't be out there long.

[formerfcfan]

Kid probably plays AAU or OYB and picked it up from there. AAU has never been about enforcing rules, just a cash grab.

I know of a school that hired a coach who only ever did AAU, and despite the fact he was notorious for being a primadonna on the sidelines in AAU, they thought he was a good fit. Obviously histrionics, arm flailing and yelling be damned. First game, he got a technical foul. Third game, he got ejected on the basis of two technical fouls. Long story short, guy got fired because he thought he could act the way he did in AAU when it came to NFHS/OHSAA.

Most kids that are good plays AAU or Travel OYB to better their game . Not saying that some organizations are not cash grab but not all. Big AAU organization seems to fit what you are talking about . Comes down to the kids and if they are taught respect and they carry that not only on the court but their everyday life.

You can be a respectful kid in “everyday life”, but be a complete headcase on the court; conversely, you can be a respectful kid on the court but a headcase off of it. They aren’t mutually exclusive ideas, conduct on and off the court.

It’s all about temperament. What everyday activity replicates the physical toll, the pace, and competitive stakes of a sport like basketball? The answer is none. Last time I checked, we measure results by who has the bigger number under “Home/guest” on the scoreboard. Politeness, keeping a nonexpressive face in front of 700-1000 fans (all eyes on you) when you’re staring down the barrel of an “L” and keeping your cool doesn’t count for dick in sports. “Results” have become entrenched into our hs sports culture at the expense of character formation and life lessons. You saddle the pressure of a coach’s future and a community’s expectations (in terms of W’s and L’s) onto the shoulders of kids whose brains are nowhere near being fully developed... kids that have a tough time separating personal obstacles from obstacles on the court — and yet, we expect them to be stoic.

AAU, in general, is problematic in this regard because of the fact it is a cash driven industry. Your paying customers, which most of the time are just average squads full of mediocre players, aren’t interested in having a game where discipline is instilled; if a coach wants to act like a buffoon, then damnit the entry fee he paid speaks louder than principle. The ref that T’s up or sends a kid off of the court in an AAU game is a ref that won’t be called back by the organizer for future games. I’m not saying every kid that plays AAU acts poorly in the HS game (because that’s obviously wrong), but kids notice when the leash is extended in AAU. It should serve as no surprise that bad habits from AAU often times can carry over into HS ball, because AAU and HS sports reinforce the mutual aspects of the other: you play on a basketball court, you play at a pace, you play to win, and you play in many of the same situations. Difference is you can act like Christian Laettner or Grayson Allen in AAU, but you have to be Mother Theresa when you play for your school. Us as adults can recognize this difference, and we expect kids to be able to as well, but we don’t admit that the lines can blur for kids... particularly in the heat of the moment.

[callie15]

There are not near as many bad ref's as there are bad ballplayers.

[mlittle]

There are not near as many bad ref's as there are bad ballplayers.

I agree, just by shear volume there will be more bad ball players. Each team dresses on average 12 players that's 24 players to 3 officials. If we had 24 officials per game I believe you would have a different opinion

[danicalifornia]

I haven't seen a really large amount of issues so far this year and I've seen more games than I'd like to admit (between Frosh, JV, Vars, 7/8, B/G for both). I think the reactions have been better with the players, coaches, and fans.

Now, there's still a long way to go, but it is much improved over 4-5 years ago.

[baseball16]

"WE" have created a society of entitlement! It gets worse and worse as the years go by. Also, Just watch an NBA game and watch them cry over every call an official makes.
I would say the majority still act and play with integrity and respect, but it's like anything else, 1 or 2 that act out usually is what everyone sees! Same with Reffing, A ref can go the majority of the game and call a great game, then miss 1-2 calls or what fans think they miss and it becomes chaos. All of sudden that ref is no good and cost the team a game. Also coaches reacting negatively to things make it worse. Those coaches that control their emotions and "Coach" usually keep everything else calm.

[svac83]

I think it is a mixture of things really. First because games are sometimes reffed so different game to game. But I think the biggest thing is because we have so many kids flopping that when a ref is fooled by it the other kid goes ballistic. To me though the teams with coaches who don’t go ballistic and coach the kid are better. And they are even better if the coach is calm 90% of the time and 10% of the time the coach really goes to bat for his kid. That sort of let kid feel coach has his back. So no reason for him to protest.

[mlittle]

I do think it's isolated. As long as I've watched basketball there are kids who overreact.

I don't think the AAU culture is helping tho. The one of many problems is the fear of losing kids in the AAU program so the coaches will allow the players to do things that their normal high school coaches will not allow. I've seen it dozens of times. If a coach in AAU coaches hard or gets on a kid that is overreacting or giving the ref grief the kid can just hop on another team. It's rare for kids to even finish a season on the same AAU team as they started, let alone make it season to season. The kids have all the power and the coaches none! I guess you could say entitlement and there are obviously exceptions but kids attitudes have and always will be a reflection of what their parents/coaches will allow and tolerate. Since birth we stretch the limits of tolerance and flirt with that line. It's in our nature to get away with what we can and kids who participate in sports are no different.

That being said I'm not sure I'm seeing any more or less of it on the court Now than say 20 years ago.

[Truth&fiction]

Kid probably plays AAU or OYB and picked it up from there. AAU has never been about enforcing rules, just a cash grab.

I know of a school that hired a coach who only ever did AAU, and despite the fact he was notorious for being a primadonna on the sidelines in AAU, they thought he was a good fit. Obviously histrionics, arm flailing and yelling be damned. First game, he got a technical foul. Third game, he got ejected on the basis of two technical fouls. Long story short, guy got fired because he thought he could act the way he did in AAU when it came to NFHS/OHSAA.

Most kids that are good plays AAU or Travel OYB to better their game . Not saying that some organizations are not cash grab but not all. Big AAU organization seems to fit what you are talking about . Comes down to the kids and if they are taught respect and they carry that not only on the court but their everyday life.

You can be a respectful kid in “everyday life”, but be a complete headcase on the court; conversely, you can be a respectful kid on the court but a headcase off of it. They aren’t mutually exclusive ideas, conduct on and off the court.

It’s all about temperament. What everyday activity replicates the physical toll, the pace, and competitive stakes of a sport like basketball? The answer is none. Last time I checked, we measure results by who has the bigger number under “Home/guest” on the scoreboard. Politeness, keeping a nonexpressive face in front of 700-1000 fans (all eyes on you) when you’re staring down the barrel of an “L” and keeping your cool doesn’t count for dick in sports. “Results” have become entrenched into our hs sports culture at the expense of character formation and life lessons. You saddle the pressure of a coach’s future and a community’s expectations (in terms of W’s and L’s) onto the shoulders of kids whose brains are nowhere near being fully developed... kids that have a tough time separating personal obstacles from obstacles on the court — and yet, we expect them to be stoic.

AAU, in general, is problematic in this regard because of the fact it is a cash driven industry. Your paying customers, which most of the time are just average squads full of mediocre players, aren’t interested in having a game where discipline is instilled; if a coach wants to act like a buffoon, then damnit the entry fee he paid speaks louder than principle. The ref that T’s up or sends a kid off of the court in an AAU game is a ref that won’t be called back by the organizer for future games. I’m not saying every kid that plays AAU acts poorly in the HS game (because that’s obviously wrong), but kids notice when the leash is extended in AAU. It should serve as no surprise that bad habits from AAU often times can carry over into HS ball, because AAU and HS sports reinforce the mutual aspects of the other: you play on a basketball court, you play at a pace, you play to win, and you play in many of the same situations. Difference is you can act like Christian Laettner or Grayson Allen in AAU, but you have to be Mother Theresa when you play for your school. Us as adults can recognize this difference, and we expect kids to be able to as well, but we don’t admit that the lines can blur for kids... particularly in the heat of the moment.

I'm not sure if you have a problem with AAU , Coaches or what you call kids whose brains are nowhere near being fully developed . I will leave it at that . Profiling people is not my thing.

[QB SNEAK]

If these kids watch the NBA every night they watch a bunch of players complaining after every whistle. LeBron does it Curry does it they all do it. As a result these kids see how to treat a Referee. 2nd would be coaching.

[formerfcfan]

Most kids that are good plays AAU or Travel OYB to better their game . Not saying that some organizations are not cash grab but not all. Big AAU organization seems to fit what you are talking about . Comes down to the kids and if they are taught respect and they carry that not only on the court but their everyday life.

You can be a respectful kid in “everyday life”, but be a complete headcase on the court; conversely, you can be a respectful kid on the court but a headcase off of it. They aren’t mutually exclusive ideas, conduct on and off the court.

It’s all about temperament. What everyday activity replicates the physical toll, the pace, and competitive stakes of a sport like basketball? The answer is none. Last time I checked, we measure results by who has the bigger number under “Home/guest” on the scoreboard. Politeness, keeping a nonexpressive face in front of 700-1000 fans (all eyes on you) when you’re staring down the barrel of an “L” and keeping your cool doesn’t count for dick in sports. “Results” have become entrenched into our hs sports culture at the expense of character formation and life lessons. You saddle the pressure of a coach’s future and a community’s expectations (in terms of W’s and L’s) onto the shoulders of kids whose brains are nowhere near being fully developed... kids that have a tough time separating personal obstacles from obstacles on the court — and yet, we expect them to be stoic.

AAU, in general, is problematic in this regard because of the fact it is a cash driven industry. Your paying customers, which most of the time are just average squads full of mediocre players, aren’t interested in having a game where discipline is instilled; if a coach wants to act like a buffoon, then damnit the entry fee he paid speaks louder than principle. The ref that T’s up or sends a kid off of the court in an AAU game is a ref that won’t be called back by the organizer for future games. I’m not saying every kid that plays AAU acts poorly in the HS game (because that’s obviously wrong), but kids notice when the leash is extended in AAU. It should serve as no surprise that bad habits from AAU often times can carry over into HS ball, because AAU and HS sports reinforce the mutual aspects of the other: you play on a basketball court, you play at a pace, you play to win, and you play in many of the same situations. Difference is you can act like Christian Laettner or Grayson Allen in AAU, but you have to be Mother Theresa when you play for your school. Us as adults can recognize this difference, and we expect kids to be able to as well, but we don’t admit that the lines can blur for kids... particularly in the heat of the moment.

I'm not sure if you have a problem with AAU , Coaches or what you call kids whose brains are nowhere near being fully developed I will leave it at that . Profiling people is not my thing.

It’s a well-established fact that the human brain does not fully develop until about the age of 24 or 25. In fact, the prefrontal cortex - which is the rational / “cooler head” part of the brain - is what undergoes significant changes throughout the teenage years into the early twenties.