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Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:34 pm
by Orange and Brown
bfry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:30 pm
Orange and Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:20 pm
bfry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:17 pm
I get that rules exist for a reason. However, should each rule be enforced by the book? Should every bump be called? Should every time a coach is a step out of the coaches box be a technical? I think reasonable minds can say they don't want that. There are many styles of officials. They interpret and choose which calls should be made every night. Like I said, he would go back and change it I'm sure, but the punishment isn't just.
If the official would have simply followed the rule and told the school "no, wear your whites like all the other teams" we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Perhaps. We can argue about rules all day long. My point, from the inception of this thread, was that the punishment does not fit the infraction. I just don't know how anyone could justify it does. The next time a player is in the lane more than 3 seconds, the official who lets it go uncalled should suffer the same fate? It is a rule.
In games calls are often judgement calls. That's why fans see a call differently than an official. This is not.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:36 pm
by VetteMan
Orange and Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:20 pm
bfry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:17 pm
I get that rules exist for a reason. However, should each rule be enforced by the book? Should every bump be called? Should every time a coach is a step out of the coaches box be a technical? I think reasonable minds can say they don't want that. There are many styles of officials. They interpret and choose which calls should be made every night. Like I said, he would go back and change it I'm sure, but the punishment isn't just.
If the official would have simply followed the rule and told the school "no, wear your whites like all the other teams" we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Orange and Brown, If only you could make this a little more "clear", then "Mayby" everyone could understand ? lol
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:24 pm
by wobycat
Orange and Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:32 pm
received_974136039448525.jpegreceived_808041159565523.jpegreceived_1675385652564332.jpeg
As everyone can see, each team clearly knows the rules and gave notice that they understood the rules.
The officials are also aware of the rules.
We have rules for a reason. If we let one go because it's "not that big of a deal", then where do we stop?
We stop at common sense. We know the rule. We know it was violated. We know the official should have enforced the rule. No one disputes that but you can’t tell me this would be enforced in a regular season game. Obviously there is a penalty and more than likely when would that penalty be enforced? Someone mentioned that they could’ve made them re dress. Is that the appropriate way enforce the rule? Or is the penalty automatic as soon as they took the floor? Again I have no idea who we are talking about but if he made the decision to allow the uniforms simply based on the fact that it would have cost one team a penalty in which could have decided the game, then I agree with his decision. No one has really told me if both coaches agreed to the decision and if so that even makes me feel like it was the right thing.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:30 pm
by bfry
Orange and Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:34 pm
bfry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:30 pm
Orange and Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:20 pm
If the official would have simply followed the rule and told the school "no, wear your whites like all the other teams" we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Perhaps. We can argue about rules all day long. My point, from the inception of this thread, was that the punishment does not fit the infraction. I just don't know how anyone could justify it does. The next time a player is in the lane more than 3 seconds, the official who lets it go uncalled should suffer the same fate? It is a rule.
In games calls are often judgement calls. That's why fans see a call differently than an official. This is not.
I don't know that they are all judgement calls. 3 seconds is fairly universal. Contact is as well. I think i know what you're getting at as I believe you to be knowledgeable and intelligent. However, I think officials have to make tough decisions based upon whether or not those things give a player/team an advantage.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:32 pm
by Orange and Brown
wobycat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:24 pm
Orange and Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:32 pm
received_974136039448525.jpegreceived_808041159565523.jpegreceived_1675385652564332.jpeg
As everyone can see, each team clearly knows the rules and gave notice that they understood the rules.
The officials are also aware of the rules.
We have rules for a reason. If we let one go because it's "not that big of a deal", then where do we stop?
We stop at common sense. We know the rule. We know it was violated. We know the official should have enforced the rule. No one disputes that but you can’t tell me this would be enforced in a regular season game. Obviously there is a penalty and more than likely when would that penalty be enforced? Someone mentioned that they could’ve made them re dress. Is that the appropriate way enforce the rule? Or is the penalty automatic as soon as they took the floor? Again I have no idea who we are talking about but if he made the decision to allow the uniforms simply based on the fact that it would have cost one team a penalty in which could have decided the game, then I agree with his decision. No one has really told me if both coaches agreed to the decision and if so that even makes me feel like it was the right thing.
From what I know, both coaches were aware of it but, they had their home whites with them so the official should have said no to the orange uni and made them change. They took the floor in the wrong uniform and that should have been an automatic technical.
People think the punishment is unjust (I don't have an opinion either way), but it was an easy thing for the official to tell them to wear the right uniform and this whole mess could have been avoided. It's the district tournament. Hello! lol
The only points I have brought up we're that both teams and the officials knew the rule, and chose not to follow the rule.
I have rules I have to follow at my jobs, their are consequences if I don't follow those rules. It doesn't matter if I think they are unjust punishments or not.
I follow the rules so I don't have to worry about it.
The entire situation should never have happened.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:34 pm
by Orange and Brown
bfry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:30 pm
Orange and Brown wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:34 pm
bfry wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:30 pm
Perhaps. We can argue about rules all day long. My point, from the inception of this thread, was that the punishment does not fit the infraction. I just don't know how anyone could justify it does. The next time a player is in the lane more than 3 seconds, the official who lets it go uncalled should suffer the same fate? It is a rule.
In games calls are often judgement calls. That's why fans see a call differently than an official. This is not.
I don't know that they are all judgement calls. 3 seconds is fairly universal. Contact is as well. I think i know what you're getting at as I believe you to be knowledgeable and intelligent. However, I think officials have to make tough decisions based upon whether or not those things give a player/team an advantage.
My point is and has been, if he would have just followed the rule like all the other officials, we wouldn't be here talking about it.
I really don't have an opinion either way on his punishment.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:37 pm
by Orange and Brown
Officials are watched closer in the postseason.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:42 pm
by bfry
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. I feel the punishment is extremely out of bounds, others do not. That's fine. I just feel that if said official had a track record of issues, OK. As far as I know, that's not close to the case here.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 6:52 pm
by wobycat
I’m ok with his punishment even though I don’t agree with it. He’s accountable as well. My only contention was that I agree his actions if he did so with the intention of not deciding the game.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:32 pm
by itsme
Didn't a official get suspended 2-3 years ago because the official scorer didn't wear a stripe shirt during a sectional game? I think OHSSA can fine the home team if it's not worn during the regular season
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 7:57 pm
by Prince
Why would a team bring 3 sets of uniforms? Most schools only have 2 sets white and dark. All schools are sent the brackets from the SEDB I believe. So it is black / White who is the home team. 3 sets of uniforms? Really ?
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:02 pm
by Vik
Why bring 2?
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:47 pm
by yabbadabbadoo
Vik wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 8:02 pmWhy bring 2?
My guess is they figured that they would be made to change but asked the official if they could wear the dark unis. He must of then asked the other coach and he said it was fine by him. The thing about that was it wasn’t that coaches decision.
Official probably deserved what he got.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:48 pm
by Shoedaddy
Again, no one has answered me regarding the decision to stop the clock due to the medical emergency in the stands. Technically the game should have continued but it wasn’t the “right” thing to do. Yes one team should have had on the home whites but because both teams had drastically different colors and both agreed, why does it matter? Sounds like uniforms need to be checked 30 minutes before the game almost like a boxers gloves. If the team was asked to change or given a technical and lost by a point, everyone would have cried, “Refs trying to be the show.” To me the punishment fits someone driving 80mph in a school zone when it should be the punishment for driving 60 in a 55. I saw the ref in question do about 5 games this year and only one time did his crew even closely impact the outcome. In that game, Waverly vs. Minford, another guy on the crew whom I’ve never seen work with them before called a charge against Minford that I thought was an obvious block. I felt like it cost Minford the game. The OHSSA is crying about no one wants to ref, why would you? And they embarrass one of the good ones on a technicality? Good luck OHSAA
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:04 pm
by 93Bulldog
Asking to wear dark uniforms when I know I'm the lower seed is just plain dumb. That's bout the only opinion I have on this thread. lol
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:45 pm
by thebarlowbandit
Shoedaddy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:48 pm
Again, no one has answered me regarding the decision to stop the clock due to the medical emergency in the stands. Technically the game should have continued but it wasn’t the “right” thing to do. Yes one team should have had on the home whites but because both teams had drastically different colors and both agreed, why does it matter? Sounds like uniforms need to be checked 30 minutes before the game almost like a boxers gloves. If the team was asked to change or given a technical and lost by a point, everyone would have cried, “Refs trying to be the show.” To me the punishment fits someone driving 80mph in a school zone when it should be the punishment for driving 60 in a 55. I saw the ref in question do about 5 games this year and only one time did his crew even closely impact the outcome. In that game, Waverly vs. Minford, another guy on the crew whom I’ve never seen work with them before called a charge against Minford that I thought was an obvious block. I felt like it cost Minford the game. The OHSSA is crying about no one wants to ref, why would you? And they embarrass one of the good ones on a technicality? Good luck OHSAA
I believe I saw the police go over to the scorers table to stop the clock during the emergency. I would say that trumps everything. That being said, real life has kept me busy but congrats to Jackson. They played great Friday night and best of luck in the finals.
To my Warriors, great season!!!
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:17 am
by mhs95_06
I believe this was an intentional shenaniganous ploy by the coach to put the official and opposing coach in binds to get a competitive mental advantage. If the official tells them to change, he then says can we ask the other coach if it is okay. If either one says no the the one that said no, then they are the bad guys and he tells his team it's ridiculous to enforce that "silly" rule to get them more motivated. If either one bites, then they get to wear their "lucky" uniforms. If neither one bites, then he says how about we wear our 2nd color of colored uniforms?
Should have immediately told them to change to whites and assessed the appropriate penalty technical foul(s).
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:15 am
by Flyers58
93Bulldog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:04 pm
Asking to wear dark uniforms when I know I'm the lower seed is just plain dumb. That's bout the only opinion I have on this thread. lol
Agree 100%......end of conversation
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:57 am
by BBALL99
93Bulldog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:04 pm
Asking to wear dark uniforms when I know I'm the lower seed is just plain dumb. That's bout the only opinion I have on this thread. lol
This is the part that I cannot understand. How the coach, AD, or anyone from the school could think this was a good idea is just crazy.
Re: Official Suspended by OHSAA
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:17 am
by wobycat
BBALL99 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:57 am
93Bulldog wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:04 pm
Asking to wear dark uniforms when I know I'm the lower seed is just plain dumb. That's bout the only opinion I have on this thread. lol
This is the part that I cannot understand. How the coach, AD, or anyone from the school could think this was a good idea is just crazy.
Sounds like everybody involved made the wrong decision. Just glad the game was not affected by it. The penalty for the ref is pretty severe IMO. Perhaps a warning would be better for the first instance.