OHSAA tournament

[Amock0905]

Thoughts on how the tournament is setup? Should private schools be in the same tournament or have a separate one? My opinion is private schools should have a separate tournament, sole reason for that being that they can recruit and public schools can’t!

[Chieftain2009]

This again?

[Tri-StateYouthSports]

Competitive balance hasn't even been in effect for a full season yet. Let's see how it plays out.

[danicalifornia]

Competitive balance hasn't even been in effect for a full season yet. Let's see how it plays out.

Exactly. They are working to figure everything out, just give it some time.

[TheFlyingDutchman]

Great lets beat that dead horse some more. Both recruit, get over it.

[HamPorter]

The tournament should be split into 4 or more divisions, where the amount of teams in each division are divided by the school's population. The state should make be able to keep the divisions somewhat even if they know the school's enrollment for each gender, although we don't want to assume gender. The only issue is how large of an enrollment gap that the largest one may have, but that can be looked at down the line.

Why do we need to split between public and private, especially in a sport with 5 people competing for each one at a time?

[TVC]

The tournament should be split into 4 or more divisions, where the amount of teams in each division are divided by the school's population. The state should make be able to keep the divisions somewhat even if they know the school's enrollment for each gender, although we don't want to assume gender. The only issue is how large of an enrollment gap that the largest one may have, but that can be looked at down the line.

Why do we need to split between public and private, especially in a sport with 5 people competing for each one at a time?

If and when your team plays Harvest Prep you may not feel this same way.

[itsme]

The tournament should be split into 4 or more divisions, where the amount of teams in each division are divided by the school's population. The state should make be able to keep the divisions somewhat even if they know the school's enrollment for each gender, although we don't want to assume gender. The only issue is how large of an enrollment gap that the largest one may have, but that can be looked at down the line.

Why do we need to split between public and private, especially in a sport with 5 people competing for each one at a time?

They are 4 divisions now. any more divisions and some teams wouldn't have to win a game to get out of a sectional

[thebarlowbandit]

You folks realize that the only reason the private and public are not split is because the public schools have voted that down multiple times!

[HamPorter]

The tournament should be split into 4 or more divisions, where the amount of teams in each division are divided by the school's population. The state should make be able to keep the divisions somewhat even if they know the school's enrollment for each gender, although we don't want to assume gender. The only issue is how large of an enrollment gap that the largest one may have, but that can be looked at down the line.

Why do we need to split between public and private, especially in a sport with 5 people competing for each one at a time?

They are 4 divisions now. any more divisions and some teams wouldn't have to win a game to get out of a sectional

I would only lightly switch up the bottom 3 divisions and majorly split the biggest division. Having schools with 375 boys possibly play one with 1000 is too big of a difference to me. Plus, we could just do ours like the Southwest does and to win a Sectional advances you to the District finals. So the Sectional Finals would be what our district semifinals are now.

[HamPorter]

The tournament should be split into 4 or more divisions, where the amount of teams in each division are divided by the school's population. The state should make be able to keep the divisions somewhat even if they know the school's enrollment for each gender, although we don't want to assume gender. The only issue is how large of an enrollment gap that the largest one may have, but that can be looked at down the line.

Why do we need to split between public and private, especially in a sport with 5 people competing for each one at a time?

If and when your team plays Harvest Prep you may not feel this same way.

It sucks, but it is what it is. Would just make it all the sweeter when a team from around here knocks them off.

[GoBucks1047]

I would like OHSAA to consider a few ideas in my opinion (3 in total, will be posted separartely). Feel free to tell me what you think.

1. Divisions
One proposal I think OHSAA divisions should consider looks a little like their football (not as many divisions obviously), but either add a 5th division for the purpose of the highest 12% of OHSAA schools being in a division and the remaining 4 divisions divides evenly. The reason I went with 12% as opposed to 10% was to allow the NW schools in the state to be able to have their own district (Findley-Toledo), which would have 6 teams per district. Here is what the division breakdown would look like based of the numbers for this basketball season:

Proposal A
D1 096 Schools - 528-1373
D2 174 Schools - 297-527
D3 174 Schools - 188-296
D4 177 Schools - 120-187
D5 178 Schools - 012-119

D2-D5 Schools would have an average district size of 11 schools (compared to 12.5 currently). Additionally, due to D1 having a smaller tournament, they would lose sectional championships, which would be replaced with district quarterfinals. I would allow D1 teams to schedule a maximum of 24 games to make up for the loss of up to 2 tournament games, though they would not be required to play 24 games.


Another proposal adds a 5th division, but rather than having the top 12% for D1, the 5 divisions would be divided evenly. The average district size would drop to 10 schools (12.5 currently). Here would be the divisional breakdown:

Proposed B
D1 158 Schools - 420-1373
D2 159 Schools - 259-419
D3 159 Schools - 174-258
D4 161 Schools - 115-173
D5 162 Schools - 012-114

With this setup, an option, though not required, could set up teams within a district to come together to form district-play, and the teams play each other twice or split into a format like what the SHAC currently does conference scheduling wise where there are 2 divisions of 5 teams and a team plays their division twice and the other division once.


The final proposal is where OHSAA decides they do not want to add a division, but D1 becomes the highest 16% of OHSAA schools and the remaining 3 divisions divided evenly. Here is the division breakdown for this proposal:

Proposed C
D1 127 Schools - 478-1373
D2 223 Schools - 239-477
D3 223 Schools - 138-238
D4 226 Schools - 012-137

D1 would have an average district size of 8 schools and would be allowed up to 24 games maximum as opposed to 22 games like Proposal A to make up for the loss of up to 2 tournament games. D2-D4 would have an average district size of 14 schools as opposed of 12.5 currently. This could also provide the potental for teams to form district-play where they are all close in location and size, and they would just all play each other once, but it would not be a requirement just as Proposal B.


For comparison, is the current divisional breakdown:

Current
D1 199 Schools - 362-1373
D2 200 Schools - 211-361
D3 200 Schools - 128-210
D4 200 Schools - 012-127

[GoBucks1047]

2. Harbin Points for Basketball

I notice how some teams feel like they were cheated because sectionals have majority teams are from a conference and positions their conference better than the rest of the sectional, or where it seems like some sectionals are only based on record and not strength of schedule. I think the Harbin Points format used in football could be used for ranking or seeding teams in a sectional or district. Teams could play 20 games and then hold their draw to announce the ranking or seeding for the tournament, and then follow the procedure each athletic district conducts. The points format could be used exactly football using 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, and 5.0 points per win going from D4 up to D1, and if a 5th division is created, the top division would be 5.5 points per win. As for the Level 2 divisor, I believe it would be cut in half to 5 for each game you play and 0.5 for every game your opponent plays, just in case teams want to push makeup games past the draw. That way, we at the least have a way to know how teams stack up in basketball in a district or sectional. The only area of concern I have though is where teams in conferences would play other teams twice and the impact that may have.

[formerfcfan]

The tournament should be split into 4 or more divisions, where the amount of teams in each division are divided by the school's population. The state should make be able to keep the divisions somewhat even if they know the school's enrollment for each gender, although we don't want to assume gender. The only issue is how large of an enrollment gap that the largest one may have, but that can be looked at down the line.

Why do we need to split between public and private, especially in a sport with 5 people competing for each one at a time?

If and when your team plays Harvest Prep you may not feel this same way.

Interesting, as my team plays Harvest Prep twice a year and has for a long time. Back to when BJ Mullens played for them, in fact. I don’t feel the same sentiment you posit.

[GoBucks1047]

3. Balanced Tournament (near equal)

One thing I noticed (using D4 as an example) is although there are 200 teams in the state for Division 4, the way the regionals are split up are:
45 teams - Bowling Green
48 Teams - Kettering
51 Teams - Canton
56 Teams - Athens (before Village Academy removed)

Additionally in terms of the districts, mainly for Athens in D4, here are the district split up:
10 Teams - Athens 2
11 Teams - Athens 1
16 Teams - East
19 Teams - Carroll (before Village Academy removed)

I know location has a part in this, but I feel like there is a way to balance districts and regionals to make it more even for teams across the state.
Currently, athletic districts are determined by the number of teams and divided by 16 and rounded to the nearest whole number. I think as a proposal, instead of rounding to the nearest whole number, it should be rounded to the nearest quarter number (0, 0.25, 0.5, 0.75, 1, etc.), and that athletic districts could be partly split by regionals. In an easier way to try to put it to words, by conference affilation and/or geogrpahic location, a certain number teams in a athletic district would be placed into a different regional. Once the regionals are determined, for districts that do geographical sectionals, the 4 sectionals would be split geographically with an emphisis on conference affliation while the districts would be balanced. Here is how it would look:

D4 199 Schools - 012-127 (does not include Village Academy
Schools: 21 SE; 16 E; 18 C; 39 NE; 70 NW; 36 SW
Districts [Proposed (Current)]: 1.75 (2) SE; 1.25 (1) E; 1.25 (1) C; 3 (3) NE; 5.75 (6) NW; 3 (3) SW
Regional Breakdown by District (12-13 Schools per district):
Athens: 1.75 SE + 1.25 E + 1 C
Kettering: 3 SW + 1 NW
Bowling Green: 4 NW
Canton: 3 NE + 0.25 C (3 Knox-Morrow teams) + 0.75 NW (Mansfield area)

Regionals would not have to be a perfect 50-50-50-50, 52-48-52-48 would be reasonable too as travel would be a concern for some teams; just as long as all districts have 12 or 13 teams each. As for districts, 12-12-13-13 would be heavily prefered with some emphisis on conference affliaction where it can be done. I would do Athens 1 & 2 with 12 each and then Carroll and East with 13 each because of the distance apart and travel. It should be noted that the Athens regional example is an extreme example compared to the other 15 regionals in the state. Here is the D3 Athens regional as a better example:

D3 200 Schools - 128-210
Schools: 28 SE; 15 E; 25 C; 48 NE; 41 NW; 43 SW
Districts [Proposed (Current)]: 2.25 (2) SE; 1 (1) E; 2 (2) C; 4 (4) NE; 3.25 (3) NW; 3.5 (4) SW
Regional Breakdown by District:
Canton: 4 NE (48 schools)
Athens: 2 SE (24 Schools) + 1 E (15 Schools) + 1 C (13 Schools) = 52 Schools
Bowling Green: 3 NW (38 schools) + 1 C (12 schools) = 50 Schools
Kettering: 0.25 SE (4 SHAC schools) + 0.25 NW (southern 3 schools close to Kettering) + 3.5 SW (43 Schools) = 50 Schools

Athens Regional:
Athens 1 - 13 Teams
Athens 2 - 13 Teams
Columbus 2 - 13 Teams
East - 13 Teams

I hope this example made the concept is easier to understand for everyone, I promise it is not that difficult, D4 Athens regional is the rare outlier.

[Truth Serum]

Throw all of the private schools in their own division or multiple divisions .

[Hoopie74]

Maybe we should start a new school in the southeastern region. One that allows anyone to enroll.Bring those kids out of the hollers ,out of those river bottoms,off those mountains and get them into the classrooms and on to the hardwoods.Give these kids a chance to compete for a chance to play in the state tournament. Unlimited recruitment because after all it's about the kids . Heck they may even be able to visit each other's families someday. Oh my.

[Amock0905]

Throw all of the private schools in their own division or multiple divisions .

Say it again for the people in the back

[formerfcfan]

Maybe we should start a new school in the southeastern region. One that allows anyone to enroll.Bring those kids out of the hollers ,out of those river bottoms,off those mountains and get them into the classrooms and on to the hardwoods.Give these kids a chance to compete for a chance to play in the state tournament. Unlimited recruitment because after all it's about the kids . Heck they may even be able to visit each other's families someday. Oh my.

Portsmouth Notre Dame already exists. Ask them how the ability to enroll anyone they so choose has made a difference for their basketball program.

[mhs95_06]

Take the 64 biggest schools according to competitive balance into a 5th division, then split the rest of the schools into 4 divisions that continues being played as the current 4 divisions on the same schedules, but with 16 schools less in each division. Let the 64 teams play 2 extra regular season games if they want. Seed the 64 teams state wide, and let the top 20 teams play at home on Friday night 3 weeks before the state tourney, with the remaining 12 games being at neutral sites. Play the 16 2nd round games at neutral sites 2 Fridays before the state tourney. The week before the state tourney, play the 3rd round games Wed and Thurs at St Johns, with 4th round games Sat at St Johns. Final 4 at the Schott on Wed. State championship last game of 5 Friday with first game moved earlier to 9am to accommodate that, and to give the winning lower division teams a little more rest before their championships Saturday.