Being Competitive in Playoffs ?

[FANOSPORTS]

Other than Ironton, Logan & Wheelersburg who most of us thought would win their 1st round games and throw in Oak Hill for a fine season this year, all other teams in SEO that made the playoffs lost by an AVERAGE margin of 43 - 7 last week (S. Valley, Caldwell, Coal Grove, Minford, Alexander and Zane Trace). I think scheduling has a lot more to do with this in SEO than it does in other parts of the state because it seems every year we have teams (8-2, 9-1) that get blown out in the playoffs because of inferior competition in the regular season. You've got many 5-5 and 6-4 teams around the state that make the playoffs every year and most do well as far as representing in the second season. How can the Southeast District change this or a better question would be will they even try ? (And let's not use travel or $ as excuses as most teams could schedule more "points" games very close to home if they wanted). Not trying to get anybody riled up, just debate.

[sider]

If teams want to be more competitive in the playoffs, schedule tougher opponents. I hear many people say "why would we drive all the way to this place, just to get our butt-kicked?" Well even though that seems like a puzzling question, after a few years of loses, you will start getting wins...and when you start playing more of these playoff caliber teams, you start getting more playoff wins.

[1987chieftains]

i think you guys are right. at some point the more you play outside of seo your going to start catching on to how everyone else outside of seo is playing. and your coaching staff and players are going to remember and do thing differently when they meet up with team outside of seo. maybe not run out of the power I or wing T all game every game.

[1987chieftains]

VERY TRUE 4EVER. DISTANCE IS AN ISSUE. C-BUS PROGRAMS DON'T LIKE TRAVELING OUTSIDE OF 270.

[pappy1]

87chieftains: It will be interesting to see what offense Amyx goes to after Angle has graduated.

It will be very interesting. The spread seems to gain popularity as the offense of choice. However to execute it at a high level you must have the atheletes, especially a QB.

[fuzzhead]

The metro area schools will always have this kind of advantage over the rural schools and you can count on one hand the number of SE Ohio Schools who have even made the final four. Ironton, Burg, P-West, N-Y are the only ones that come to mind off the top of my head.

Coal Grove - Final 4 appearances in '83 and '90.

I think everyone's at least partially right on this thread.

[loganlocos]

87chieftains: It will be interesting to see what offense Amyx goes to after Angle has graduated.

4ever -

I think Amyx will let Coach Wolfe continue to run the offense. Dale has always been a "defense" guy and has usually let his top assistant handle the offense. Not to say he has NO control, but he has given Coach Wolfe a pretty long leash the last two years.

Don't expect the "I" to come back full time, but don't expect a "throw-first" spread either. Probably an offense more like Canal Winchester ran - kind of a "Wing-T" out of the shotgun.

[91Buckeye]

I think Coach Amyx does an excellent job of tailoring his offense to fit the skill set of his top playmakers. I recall a power running game when they had RB's like Cosgrove and throwing the ball a lot more when he had a very talented QB. I think the spread this year was a product of a superb athlete at QB and a lot of talented WR type players. I think the offense will continue with this trend and not a set scheme.

[dazed&confused]

87chieftains: It will be interesting to see what offense Amyx goes to after Angle has graduated.

4ever -

I think Amyx will let Coach Wolfe continue to run the offense. Dale has always been a "defense" guy and has usually let his top assistant handle the offense. Not to say he has NO control, but he has given Coach Wolfe a pretty long leash the last two years.

Don't expect the "I" to come back full time, but don't expect a "throw-first" spread either. Probably an offense more like Canal Winchester ran - kind of a "Wing-T" out of the shotgun.

GAHS-Just a thought but a lot of kids coming up in the system got exposure to Logan's spread offense. I doubt they coach different systems to different subsets of players. Logan is a spread team now. I appreciate your focus on Patrick but keep in mind it takes more than a QB to run the spread or any particular type of offense. You can tweak an offense to match your personnel, especially at QB (Terrell Pryor). But I think for better or worse, Logan is going to be a wide openspread offense if for no other reason than that is now what the feeder programs will be teaching.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

you simply have to get into these metropolitan areas , and schedule these teams as ironton does. columbus desales, bishop watterson, dayton teams, columbus teams, there are some very fine big schools in west virginia and kentucky as well. we probably have played desales a dozen times , and may have won 4/5. but it dang sure gets you ready for the playoffs , if you survive it physically. but these teams don't play ironman football, they change in platoons, always fresh legs. i've seen many years desales come from behind to beat us last second. make it into the playoffs at 6-4, or even 5-5. and go to the state game. because of their schedule strength. i don't think anybody the size of ironton , just about a dozen boys from d5. does it any better. with usually 36/38 players.

[Bozo]

Zane Trace has made the playoffs four times since 2001.

They have been defeated 41-10, 52-7, 42-24 (ZT scored TD's late) and 48-9.

[riverball]

I think it matters alot what Div. you are talking about too. Div. 6 and sometimes even Div. 5 schools are going to have pretty high highs and sometimes very low lows. If you are playing a schedule that can beat you up when you are in a low it can prolong that low for a very long time. I think you keep your program more stable by playing schedules that you are going to have a winning record way more than not. I think that the key in these divisions are getting in to the playoffs.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

the key is a tough scheduling , and living in the weight room.

[FarAwayFalcon]

I might be off here but I have another thought. A lot of guys that play at bigger schools also only play one sport. Take track for example, to northern kids it's a big deal and they spend all year working for one sport. The competition is such at bigger schools that a lot of guys can only play one sport unless very gifted, of course there are exceptions to this. But in our area most guys play at least 2 and often times three sometimes four sports every year. It is nearly impossible for kids to play that many sports and put the work into the weight room like they need to do to compete at the end of the season. We have teams that go great for 6-7 weeks but then hit a wall because their off-season preparation is not as good as it needed to be. When a group of 40 guys dedicate themselves to one sport and prepare all year round for 4 years for it of course they are going to be head and shoulders above other teams.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

at ironton they are usually 3 sport athletes , as well as powerlifting.

[datchillicav]

SCHEDULE. That is why Ironton has been successful in the playoffs. It is why Logan has not been usually, but why I feel that they are beginning to be. They used to play in the SEOAL(doesn;t get you ready for D1 and 2 playoffs) AND schedule relatively weak non conference games often. Now, they are still in the SEOAL but they probably played the toughest non-conference schedule in SEO this year. It began to pay off last year and I think will pay off this year.

Most that have spoken so far have been mostly correct.

[Bozo]

I like kids playing every sport that they can. It puts them in pressure situations.

[tl895]

that is one reason that i am sometimes harsh on the ovc teams they play to win the ovc and nothing else. it like the world is flat and they will sail off the scioto county edge

[I smell bad]

Many don't want to hear this, or read it, but I say it and I will write it anyway cause I strongly believe in it. Some have touched on this with their posts. But to be more specific, simply scheduling better teams is not the cure all to being successful in the playoffs. Some teams can schedule up and beat some of the better teams without making any other changes. But most don't simply schedule better teams, beat those teams, and then start winning playoff games. Most have to do some retrospection, and make the decision to improve their program. You have to do the things the better programs do to have a chance to be successful against them. Unfortunately, many coaches are not willing to do that. They either think they are already doing things the best way, or they don't want to put the time in that it takes to make a change. In the latter case, many times neither do the players. Then they blame any number of people or things for the reasons why they can't win playoff games. But they never take a look in the mirror. So to the teams that continually make the playoffs and lose by larger margins, I say you need to take a look at what you are doing and not just at your schedule. You can either continue to claim you have horrible luck in the playoff draw, blame other people and other things for your losses, or you can do some self analysis and try to improve.

[4 HORSEMEN]

Many don't want to hear this, or read it, but I say it and I will write it anyway cause I strongly believe in it. Some have touched on this with their posts. But to be more specific, simply scheduling better teams is not the cure all to being successful in the playoffs. Some teams can schedule up and beat some of the better teams without making any other changes. But most don't simply schedule better teams, beat those teams, and then start winning playoff games. Most have to do some retrospection, and make the decision to improve their program. You have to do the things the better programs do to have a chance to be successful against them. Unfortunately, many coaches are not willing to do that. They either think they are already doing things the best way, or they don't want to put the time in that it takes to make a change. In the latter case, many times neither do the players. Then they blame any number of people or things for the reasons why they can't win playoff games. But they never take a look in the mirror. So to the teams that continually make the playoffs and lose by larger margins, I say you need to take a look at what you are doing and not just at your schedule. You can either continue to claim you have horrible luck in the playoff draw, blame other people and other things for your losses, or you can do some self analysis and try to improve.

Well said, and I think you hit the nail-on-the-head with this statement. I would like to see the better teams in our area "upgrade" their schedule, but what is the point if you don't change some of the other things you do as well?

Don't get so stuck in "tradition" which is sometimes better stated as "habit" that you avoid changes that could make you a better and more competitive program.

Decide WHO and WHAT you are. If you JUST want to win your league, make the playoffs, and take an early exit from the playoffs, then that is one thing..........

But, if you consider yourself a State "Power-Program", then you need to act like one. Make the necessary changes, both in schedule and in the other areas, become a better program.

I think sometimes we become too complacent in where we are, and forget what is possible.