Should all Private schools be forced to at least be in D4?

[datchillicav]

I do not have the numbers in front of me but I have heard them before so here goes my best recollection. Don't quote me but these are similar to the actual numbers I heard a year or so ago. Something like 10% of football playing schools in Ohio are private. about 40-45% of State Championships won are by private schools. That is proof IMO thta private schools have an unfair advantage. I will not speculate on why but those are the facts.

I have also gone to the State Championship games every year as long as I can remember without missing a year. I also watch a lot of out of state teams whenever I get the chance at events like the Herbstreet or other classics. There is definately an advantage for private schools. Schools like Desales, Watterson, Ursuline, and Mooney have talent way better than their division should. Desales and Watterson (because they're closer and Ive seen them a lot) routinely have talent equivilant to a D1 or D2 playoff school and they are both D3. Mooney usually has at least 4-5 D1 football players on their Varsity team and usually play D4. With the exception of schools like Steubenville and Colerain, public schools cannot compete for a State Title EVERY YEAR like these schools. And I have not even brought up all-boys schools with over 1,300 oys alone like St Ed's, St Iggy, and the entire GCL south.

IMO applying a multiplier would help even the playing field for the smaller schools but the big schools would still have an unfair advantage. You can't form an all private division because a) it would be unfair to the small private schools, b) if you made multiple divisions, the number of teams would be too small and the State Title would be less meaningful. Forming an all private division would be more unfair to them than having them is to everyone else.

IMO the best solution is to apply a multiplier of 1.5-1.75 and AFTER the multiplier is applied, create a 7th division for the extremely large schools. It would mostly be the big private schools and any HUGE public schools. Can't think of what public schools would be in it but I am sure there are some. Maybe Mentor?

I doubt anything will happen though so in the mean time we, as public schools, need to bust our butts to compete and win against them because as go chiefs said, to be the best, you have to beat the best.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

i totally agree ., those who have not advanced through the playoff system to play these teams in the last 2 weeks have no idea. the difference in the talent level, as well as depth of these private teams, and anybody thats followed tiger football can tell you there is a distinct advantage official wise in these games , like it or not, you better humble a team, cause if it's close, you won't get the calls. don't believe me ask anybody that knows.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

and thats not complaining , those are the facts. don't believe me look in a state playoff program, compare the ratio, of private school championships to public schools state championships. arm yourself with this information before reposting please, it will enlighten you.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

there are 6 divisions, i bet at least 4 state titles won will be a catholic/or private school. possibly more. that should prove it to you.

[tl895]

you are kidding yourself if you think the private schools don't have an advantage

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

puh-leeze an occasional open enrollment student , is not a spit in the bucket to the advantage of living in a metro area , where kids can go to any powerhouse they see fit. look at this years desales roster, chalked full of first year starters. you know that. they even said it during the broadcast of the desales /bishop watterson game.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

i can say in all honesty, if this is accurate . i'm wrong . but you listed quite a few, that i've always thought were private schools. i'll list who i all along thought were private. so i see now,
cincy princeton
canton mckinley
cincy colerain
stuebenville
akron butchel
st. mary's memorial
columbus brookhaven
poland seminary

st. henry
hamler patrick miller.


those account for a ton of state champions, and until , for the first time broken down. i thought all along these were private schools. thanks tobias.

[pappy1]

I believe that a large part of the advantage a private school athletic program has comes from the home of the student. If a parent is paying $$$$ for their child's education they expect more out of that child. Most of those parents are achievers and have expectations of their children achieving. Most public schools do not have as high a percentage of parents who have those expectations for their children.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

i appreciate that tobias, that was very interesting. and the teams i always thought were private , make up quite a chunk of titles amongst them.

[Westfan]

Just put them on the same set of rules. Transfer after the first day of your freshman year, you sit out a year unless you move into that district. That will take care of all of this.

Around Columbus, Cincinnati, Youngstown, etc; these kids move from School to school to play ball. Need a kicker, go get one. Need a QB? Running back? Go get one. The Bishop Ready's and Youngstown Ursuline's of the world just reload everyyear. And that's fine if it's kids that have been in your system, but the way they do it isn't.

That to be the best, you have to beat the best stuff is crap. If it's a fair playing field it's right, but to play teams that aren't playing with their's isn't right. The Mooney's and Ursulines can control their enrollment to play D4 and D5 with D1 athletes and routinely beat the best D1 teams in the state. I'm sure a D4 team like West could do the same if they got their program better? Right.

[55buckeyes98]

Do private schools when the State Championship in every division year after year? No..they don't. They are beatable. Like I said...to be the best..you want to beat the best. I don't know..I've just never seen the big deal with the whole private vs public..nothings going to come of it for one..and for two..they are just a football team like every other team.

The difference in my opinion is that it's not the same public schools that are able to beat them year in year out, but most of the same private schools are there year in and year out. There are a lot less private schools and a lot of public schools. I would like to see something changed like maybe just play up one division if possible. I think there is something for winning with the kids you are given rather than being able to get kids from around the area. How good could Nelsonville-York be if the kids who go to school at nearby Logan, Trimble, Athens, etc sent a few good players there every year?

[Westfan]

Gahs, I understand what your saying, but you have to start somewhere. People will always abuse rules and find loopwholes, but right now their is nothing in their way. You say their are 8 teams left, but like the other guy said it is always the same teams that are there. No matter how good of a program you have, this isn't possible playing with boys from your own school system.

It just sucks for a great team playing with their own boys to get beat out by basically an all-star team.

The fact is the private schools have all the money and the control. The OHSAA wants them to win and they will never change. Kentucky tried to put in a public/private championship and it was voted down for the same reasons I'm sure.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

i totally agree siderman, and i'll tell you how i know, ironton has played dozens of these private schools through the years in the playoffs, if you don't think the state wants them to win, watch the officiating in one.

[The Flying Dutchman]

Bait, The last time Ironton was knocked out of the playoffs by a private school was 1994. Your last post sounded like Oliver Stone. The OHSAA does not care who wins, gimme a break. You know better.

[trojandave]

In 2000, Portsmouth was D3 and beat private schools Cincinnati Purcell Marian 37-7 and Dayton Chaminade-Julienne 31-24 in back to back weeks in the playoffs to win the Regional Championship.........then the Trojans played public school Van Wert in the state semis and lost 28-21.

[boy of summer]

The biggest problem with private schools is that they can control what division they are in by limiting enrollment or increasing enrollment as they deem fit. Thus, if they want to be DIV, they can be DIV. If they want to be DIII, they can be. They can also control who attends their schools and the caliber of kid (or in this case athlete) that they get. They have no boundaries for enrollment of students that they have to accept. Public schools cannot do that if a kid or a bunch of kids move into their districts as they have no control over this factor-if they move to the district and want to attend public school, you have to take them-private schools do not. Huge advantage private schools.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

Bait, The last time Ironton was knocked out of the playoffs by a private school was 1994. Your last post sounded like Oliver Stone. The OHSAA does not care who wins, gimme a break. You know better.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- seriously dutch , you cannot believe this , in 99 when sandusky perkins beat us. we got well enough yardage for the first down, thousands of tigers fans saw it and reacted accordingly. the spot was woefully short by the ref. then after we turned the ball overon downs, the touchdown pass thrown by perkins to win the game the guy , did not even come down in bounds, yes , they were a private school. but from the extreme north. seriously you need to get to more playoff games. i remember a game with akron saint vincent saint mary's , in a critical point in the game , at osu. that a ball was thrown to an irish reciever, it hit the ground like 3 feet in front of him, and bounced into his hands , the result first down. i've seen too many of these to roll over on my feelings. you and i both know. i have hundreds and hundreds of catholic friends. it's not about that. it's just painfully honest seeing this. somehow, they have their hands in ohsaa's pockets. ironton would have never gotten the call i just described. ask , and see how many people remember this. i don't want to argue, i've personally seen to much to be swayed. so i won't post on this anymore. always friends.

[YOU'RE TIGER BAIT]

The biggest problem with private schools is that they can control what division they are in by limiting enrollment or increasing enrollment as they deem fit. Thus, if they want to be DIV, they can be DIV. If they want to be DIII, they can be. They can also control who attends their schools and the caliber of kid (or in this case athlete) that they get. They have no boundaries for enrollment of students that they have to accept. Public schools cannot do that if a kid or a bunch of kids move into their districts as they have no control over this factor-if they move to the district and want to attend public school, you have to take them-private schools do not. Huge advantage private schools.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ding, ding, ding. you win the grand prize for honesty, and saying just like it is.

[sinker]

YOS or i mean YTB, 2007 d4 championship game: mooney vs. coldwater...coldwater wins 28-27...penalties...mooney-11 for 94yds., coldwater-4 for 20yds., them catholic pockets weren't too deep that year! with ironton's storied past, how many former/present ironton football stars are catholic and led by the winningest coach in ohio high school history who just happens to be catholic!

[The Flying Dutchman]

Bait, I could be wrong but Sandusky Perkins is a public school.

B.O.S., If you think private schools in today's economy are turning kids away willing to pay 6000-8000 a year tuition just to win a trophy,think again.