Should all Private schools be forced to at least be in D4?

[JohnKnight]

Here is the difference in Public vs Private sports in a modern day parable.

http://www.jamievollmer.com/blue_story.html

[55buckeyes98]

Yup

[JohnKnight]

Have you watched the movie, The Blind Side yet?

[Westfan]

Again just for the sake of argument, let's say the tuition is waived or an anonymous someone picks up the tab. Do you think that these private schools who are known as much for academic excellence as athletic prowess are going to push him through the system just because he plays football?

If the player is good enough, absolutely they would (or some would) and I bet it wouldn't be hard to find examples of players that struggled to qualify for or make the grades in college.

You keep bring academics into the equation. Academics are great and I'm sure you can get a better education at some private schools for several reasons. But that isn't what this is about. This is high school sports. Kids going to public schools are going because they have to go. Kids going to public schools are going there because their family chooses for them to go there. Going to a private school by choice does not offer them the right to an unfair athletic advantage over kids who have did nothing more than catch the bus in front of the house.

[TIGERS90]

Public schools have a 53-37 advantage in state titles over the last 15 years. I wouldn't call that private school domination. (29-16 D IV-D VI, 24-21 in D III- D I) I agree this is more an urban vs. rural problem than public vs. private.

You must not have read the previous post showing that private schools make up only 10% or less of the schools participating in football...and winning 44% of the championships...I think that is more than enough info to allow the state to see that there is a major problem in the way things are run...Money is the only thing that talks with the people in the state...and with the numbers continually decreasing...actually never coming close the the numbers that were at the horseshoe...and these stats...either these people who are "ruining"..I mean running things at the top might need to be investigated to see if there is some deep pockets...this is supposed to be for the kids...this isn't that way in sooooo many ways now...obviously..

[JohnKnight]

Ever read sports illustrated? they did a story on Michael Oher and said there are at least 3 others in the NFL with the same basic story to tell. I am sure there are many others.

The point is the numbers don't lie. It is clear that there can be abuse because of the situation. Just have a separate championship for all private a unrestricted open enrollment schools. Call it the OPEN class and that would solve all problems. If you felt it was wrong to compete in a class of only schools of your same size and makeup, go ahead, be in the OPEN Class. Ohio and PA have the fewest champions per number of schools of all the 50 states.

[Westfan]

Good read in the other thead. This article says it all http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/4734956

Like I said, things will change. People are unhappy about it and the internet makes it alot easier to voice your opinion and harder to cover up the truth.

GAHS I have no problem with education. Education is great. But you can get a good education at a public school. If parents want to send their kid to a private school for educational or religious reasons fine. Just don't penalize the public school kids. What kind of a message are you sending to kids from smaller divisions that get to the state level and have a team that is capable of playing for a state title, only to run into a private school allstar team that's capable of playing with D1 teams? It isn't fair.

[TIGERS90]

I have heard the term "county all-stars" used to describe public school athletic programs in this area long before I thought about the private/public debate.

Here's something else to consider in the public school sector; leaving the privates out of it for awhile. There is active, aggressive recruiting that goes on among the publics. You know it and I know it. Some do it better than others. And some get caught while others seemingly never will.

Even in these days of open enrollment consider this: there is a growing problem of funding athletic programs and many schools are looking for ways to cut costs so that they can pay their bills. Raising ticket prices is one way. Charging for parking could be another. And of course changing leagues to more travel friendly leagues is commonplace these days.

There is another option that I believe puts some public schools on an unfair playing field with others as far as attracting transfers (or whatever you want to call them), and that is in the area of "pay-to-participate." At GAHS, for example the fee is $90 per student per activity per year. If you have 3 kids active in several extra-curriculars you might have a hard time coming up with that kind of money. I know I would. GAHS is the only Gallia County school who has this fee, and I dont know of any others in the area who do.

If that isnt a disadvantage I dont know what is.

Also what about the schools is this area that have the numbers enrollmentwise to fit into a certain division, but those numbers encompass an ENTIRE COUNTY. Logan and Vinton County come to mind. Logan is the only school in Hocking County but the land mass is huge! And there isnt any density of population in either of them to put them on a level playing field with metro schools that have similar enrollment numbers inside a much smaller area.

I could go on, but no problem is as simple as it appears and the solutions arent as easy as just separating the publics and privates. Even if you do this, you are going to still have to address powers like Coldwater in the small schools, Steubenville in the mid range, and Glenville and the Cincy publics in the large. Upper Arlington, Davidson in the Central area. Different opponents perhaps, and all publics, but the schools in this area would have just as much trouble being successful against them.

By the way, the school with the most state championships in their trophy cases(s) is not a private school, but UPPER ARLINGTON. Something to consider.

I believe this is where you are not getting it....I mentioned in an earlier post...I am of course from Ironton...In this area we have been touted as having the "County All-Star Team"...for many years now...I know there have been some kids that have came to the school for athletic reasons...mostly wanting to either play in a program that they have a chance to show their talents on the big stage...either in football or basketball...as Ironton usually is the only program in the area that offers this opportunity year in/year out....

However...I do not believe I can remember one year that an Ironton ever had more than two kids on the starting football team or one kid on the starting basketball team in varsity..in the past forty plus years..

Compare these..."County All-Star Teams"...to what Alter or Ursaline or Mooney are doing where they have over half of their teams from outside the district, year in/year out..and this includes the other sports and academics.....it isn't at all the same...

Also...in our area...the private schools are unable to pay teachers what the public schools are..and usually the better instructors teach at the public schools..although there are good teachers that work for less pay..in all areas...but to say that academics are held to a higher level...not really...just public schools accept what they are given..private schools accept what they want...and in most cases class size is smaller in private schools...so it makes it easier to cover material with less kids to teach...I feel that the chance to learn is there whether it be public or private...My son goes to a public school...get's straight A's, plays every sport, is in the SEARCH Program for kids that are smart...and I would put him up against any child in any of the local private schools on any standardized tests, I am sure he would be competitive with any child of his age...Could he do this at the Local Private school...I am sure...and is he getting a good education...I am sure of it...It's all about the numbers...If you are able to build a team of all the best athletes in the county, I am sure Ironton would do better than what they have done...and Ironton has always done well...If you could put together a team that would include most of the best athletes in a region and have half of your team as transfers..if not the majority of your team...then you could build a dynasty..as we see in Mooney, Alter, Mentor Lake Catholic..etc..

[LICKING COUNTY FAN]

Not a Mooney fan at all but a couple maybe three seasons ago when everyone was talking on them recruiting a lot it later came out that they had one starter on the team that had not been there since the begining.

*Now it was never said the total amount of the players on the roster that had not been there since the begining.

[Paladin]

A little history on Mooney ( and Ursuline). Mooney & Ursuline were long time members of the Steel Valley Conference with Warren Harding, Boardman and Austintown Fitch. In those days it was an open secret that both parochials "scouted" the junior high games for talent. Got so bad that most teams ceased playing them at the Jr. Hi level to protect the athletes they had. That cut down on the recruiting. But both schools have heavy numbers that come from not only from Youngstown , but also Boardman, Fitch, Poland, Canfield, South Range,Hubbard, Girard,McDonald, Mineral Ridge,Campbell, Struthers,Jackson-Milton,Springfield Local,Mathews and Liberty. The two BIGGEST schools in the SVC , Boardman & Fitch left for the Federal League with Canton McKinley, GlenOak, North Canton Hoover,etc. Warren Harding is joining the Lake Erie League with Mentor, Shaker Hts,etc. The recruitng , now, has eased up, but only because most will no longer play them in Jr. Hi games where kids can be scouted & compared with theirs for future recruitment and a local league is no longer available to use a town's athletes against them in Varsity games. So, yes, the kids NOW are mostly in their system and not recruited. Oops, did I say that ? Braylon Heard, Mooney's All State RB and WVU recruit( or is it now Nebraska?) came out of Eagle Hts. Academy , a Youngstown school. Because the OHSAA can not protect the integrity of the game, schools are now isolating these problems from leagues and games. Most future parochial games /leagues will have to be with other parochials as the publics are already making their decisions. Playoffs have yet to be determined as the changes are occuring now.