Selection process for the AP all state team

[pappy1]

I will describe different parts of my analysis of the 2011 AP football team as opinion or fact.

It is a fact that an offensive team is usually made up of 2 ends, 5 interior linemen, 1 quarterback, 3 backs and 1 kicker. It is a fact that it is a penalty to have more than 4 people in the backfield, it is not a penalty to have more than 7 on the line. Counting a kicker an offensive first team is made up of 12 players. I personally would have no problem if a first ‘all’ team consisted of 2 tight ends, 2 wide receivers, 5 linemen, 1 quarterback, 3 running backs and a kicker. With many teams running different formations it would be hard to argue against this configuration that would total 14 players.

It is a fact that teams run different defensive schemes. Because of these differences I am considering a first team defense to consist of 4 linemen, 4 linebackers, 4 backs and a punter. That configuration would total 13 players.

My personal opinion is that there is no problem with naming more players to a position than is required to make a team, but there is a big problem with naming less than required to make a team.

It is also my opinion that the AP is as biased in selecting this team as they are biased in reporting news.

The following numbers are factual.

OHSAA lists 717 schools in the 6 divisions.

There were 3 teams selected in each of the 6 divisions. This totals 18 teams selected.

There were 277 players chosen on offense. 216 (18X12) players minimum needed. That is 28% more selected than the minimum needed. The most selected on any of the O teams was 22 on the D III first team. The least selected was 11 on the D VI second and third teams.

There were 248 players chosen on defense. 234 (18X13) players minimum needed. That is 6% more selected than the minimum needed. The most selected on any of D teams was 20 on the D I first team. The least selected was 11 on the D II second team and the D III second and third team.

It is my opinion that these numbers suggest that players on offense are favored over players on defense.

O ends selected 54. 36 (18X2) minimum needed. That is 50% more than needed. The most ends chosen were 5 on one team and least chosen were 2 on four different teams.

O LINEMEN SELECTED 78. 90 (18X5) MINIMUM NEEDED. THAT IS 13.33% LESS THAN NEEDED. THIS IS THE ONLY POSITION THAT THERE ARE LESS PLAYERS SELECTED THAN WHAT IS REQUIRED TO MAKE 18 TEAMS. ONE TEAM SELECTED THREE, SIX TEAMS SELECTED FIVE AND TEN TEAMS SELECTED FOUR. THESE NUMBERS SHOW AN UNQUESTIONED BIAS AGAINST O LINEMEN.

QB selected was 48. 18 (one per team) needed. That is 167% more selected than needed. The most selected was six by two teams and the least was one by four teams.

I believe you are getting the idea. Here is a less detailed breakdown of the rest of the team.

RB chosen 75. Needed 54.
K chosen 22. Needed 18.
DL chosen 77. Needed 72.
LB chosen 81. Needed 72.
DB chosen 72. Needed 72.
P chosen 18. Needed 18.

When I complained about the OL getting the shaft on the all SE district team, I received a PM from a sportswriter and he was not a happy camper about the process being criticized.

It is my opinion that the AP needs to do a better/fairer selection or some other entity needs to do it.

[GAHS83]

I couldn't agree more. The kids that play line already receive less recognition from their friends, peers and community who might not know enough football to truly understand the contribution that linemen make to a team. However, the AP writers that make these decisions are supposed to be experts. It is ridiculous that they can't get this right.

[LucasJackson]

oft times the pen is mightier than the sword.

[eagles73Taylor]

The problem is, was and will be is that these writers do not see hardly any of these kids play. Therefore they simply base it off of stats and others opinions. When is the last time you heard a coach point out an individual o lineman and praise him, versus that of a tailback, qb or wr? Probably at 10-1 ratio. Most coaches I hear will say the offensive line did a good job. Very few individuals are praised at this position. It is a nature of the beast. And before anyone slams me, I played O tackle in high school! lol

[pappy1]

The problem is, was and will be is that these writers do not see hardly any of these kids play. Therefore they simply base it off of stats and others opinions. When is the last time you heard a coach point out an individual o lineman and praise him, versus that of a tailback, qb or wr? Probably at 10-1 ratio. Most coaches I hear will say the offensive line did a good job. Very few individuals are praised at this position. It is a nature of the beast. And before anyone slams me, I played O tackle in high school! lol

I just wanted to bring the facts of the situation to light. You make some very good points and do not deserve to be slammed for making them. The injustice of the situation needs to be fixed. If anyone knows who to contact to help, please contact them.

[Keyser_sozeThrice]

In thinking about the posts by pappy (and John Knight on two other threads) on this thread, and the AP all SE District one, all I can compare to is this:

As Christ was dying on the cross, he looked down and saw one robber on his right and another on his left. Christ then looked up and said "Father, forgive them. For they know not what they are doing."

[kahn]

People hate the AP Poll, people hate the AP teams.

It's not a perfect system, but it's made up of writers that love their prep sports. It's made up of writers that see as many games as they can, talk to coaches and discuss things with writers who have seen games they haven't.

It's not a perfect system, but nothing involving human observation is. I'm not in the business anymore but the effort put forth by people like Keyser and others in putting together these teams is herculean sometimes and they know people will slam it.

But because it is news, and because it is good to recognize these kids, they do it anyway.

[pappy1]

In thinking about the posts by pappy (and John Knight on two other threads) on this thread, and the AP all SE District one, all I can compare to is this:

As Christ was dying on the cross, he looked down and saw one robber on his right and another on his left. Christ then looked up and said "Father, forgive them. For they know not what they are doing."

You make this follower of Christ ashamed. He was not referring to those at His sides, but those who were crucifing Him. Please forgive me for not following His example of giving grace.

[bdubya]

Wow, pappy. Maybe you should go to a bar and have a drink.

And your comment a few weeks ago about SEOPS being the new local bar stool was one of the smartest things I have ever observed on this site.

This football season alone you have criticized your team's offensive set, its color scheme, the capabilities and 'desire' of your school's coaching staff, the AP district selections, and now — a detailed layout of the entire All-Ohio list.

Football has been over for a month in roughly 87 percent of the Buckeye State, including your neck of the woods. Why don't you move on to winter and throw some of this 'support' behind your basketball and wrestling athletes, since it is supposed to be "all about the kids."

Did you ever consider in your entire mental process of this subject how many of those Special Mention and Honorable Mention choices were linemen, or the fact that most go two ways? It's about honoring the best of the best at the district and state levels, not acting like a general manager for a fictitious team that is never going to see the field.

By your process, wouldn't the AP need to select a long snapper and special teams players (non-kickers), as well as assistant coaches, a trainer, and a school physician? How about a Bus Driver of the Year or a Best Ball Boy award, or even a lifetime achievement award for a chain crew?

Shouldn't we have all-district and all-state officiating lists? Or better yet, how about an award for the best-kept artificial playing surface in each division? I guess we could even work in an award for those still using natural grass.

You can break it down however you want, but you are missing some major FACTS when making assumptions on this subject and the district selection process. You're just an expert on something that you have never been part of in your life.



Instead of hating on those who are honoring people, like any devout believer would do, maybe you should get a few people together on here and select an All-SEOPS team for divisions 2-6. You could have your say in things, and maybe someone could pick your lists apart because of 'nothing better to do.'

[WitnessProtection]

[madpolecat]

^^^^^^^^^

WitPro --

That may be my favorite SEOPreps post of all time, even better than the jedimaster!