Why will Vincent Warren NOT be in the TVC?

Post by **Orange and Brown** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:13 pm

VIKED_MAN wrote:WARREN LOCAL WOULD BE A GREAT FIT IN TVC OHIO!
WOULD BE VERY COMPETITIVE IN ALL SPORTS!
I THINK THEY ARE HAPPY WHERE THEY ARE.

GO VIKES

I think that they are happy where they are at to.

mister b · Post by **mister b** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:49 pm

Federal Hocking was asked to move to the Ohio when they asked Belpre to move to the Hocking. The Hocking teams voted no in moving Belpre to the Hocking and Federal declined the move to the Ohio. In chess, that is called a stalemate.

Post by **Orange and Brown** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:01 pm

Mister B wrote:Federal Hocking was asked to move to the Ohio when they asked Belpre to move to the Hocking. The Hocking teams voted no in moving Belpre to the Hocking and Federal declined the move to the Ohio. In chess, that is called a stalemate.

Thank you for the info. I didn't think it would ever happen, just thought that it would make the Ohio better. :-D

Post by **noreply66** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:16 pm

Other than football (at this time) Warren is just about always in the top three of any sport they play in the SEOAL. Just can't see them in this league.

Post by **Orange and Brown** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:17 pm

Once thre football team comes around I think that will change.

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:18 pm

noreply66 wrote:Other than football (at this time) Warren is just about always in the top three of any sport they play in the SEOAL. Just can't see them in this league.

I completely agree with no reply. Football isn't the only sport. Warren does extremely well in the SEOAL as a whole and their football program is getting back on track. It hasn't been that long ago when they were actually quite successful in football anyway. The overall strength of Warren's athletic program suggests that they should stay where they are.

Post by **Orange and Brown** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:22 pm

I never thought they would leave or should. They seem to be happy right where they are. Them comming to the TVC Ohio is just wishful thinking.

warrnwarriorfan · Post by **warrnwarriorfan** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:54 pm

Thanks for the responses. Again, I think that Warren folks overall want to stay put. I personally think the SEOAL is the right league for Warren. But, I wondered why the TVC would NOT want Warren.

Over the next few years I think we'll see Warren continue to improve in football. In basketball I think Warren will be in the thick of things too. Warren is traditionally very strong in the other sports. The travel is tough, but I like going to places like Ironton and Chilli where the competition/tradition are so great.

Frankly, my kid is a sophomore so none of this would impact him anyway. I just think it's interesting.

Post by **Orange and Brown** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:57 pm

GOOD LUCK WARREN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-D

mister b · Post by **mister b** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:23 pm

With the ever changing landscape in the SEOAL due to travel considerations, the SEOAL may shrink back to the membership it had only a few short years ago.

Athens left, Zanesville is leaving and the Ironton board voted to leave, resended that motion and is now studying their options from the last I heard or read.

The biggest problems with larger schools in southeastern Ohio is the travel because the schools are spread out, just like the population of this end of the state. There are alot of small schools that are grouped closer together and this makes travel some what easier for them.

One only has to look at the divisional breakdowns in basketball to see how spreadout the schools are in division 1 and 2.

I think more and more school boards are looking at ways to reduce their expenses and travel for athletics will be examined closely. Also, the time students spend in transit for games during the week will play a big factor too. Because of these 2 items, I think you may see more changes to different conferences during the next several years.

I would still like to see southeastern Ohio come up with a super conference much like the OVAC is up the river. You could split this type of conference up based on different ideas, i.e. school size, travel time etc. Have 3, 4 or 5 different divisions and crown conference champs in each sport in each division. A conference of this size would have some clout at the state level and would certainly help good officials get more games in the different state tournments.

The big problem is that someone, somewhere needs to think outside the box and then a handful of schools need to get on board with the idea and run with it. Throw away the old ties to conferences and do what is best for the kids, quality competition without having to spend endless hours on a bus on school nights. Maybe what is best for the overall program may not be the best conference football schedule, but it may be the best thing to building an overall good quality athletic program.

Just like the movie "Field of Dreams" ... if you build it, they will come.

OVClocal · Post by **OVClocal** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:43 pm

i honestly have nothing against river valley, but if i recall correctly the only thing they have competed for in the OVC is cross country and volleyball, everything else has been at the bottom of the standings every year, this could be because of travel and its hard to even consider them a rival even after being in the league for 5-6 years....i think its time for them to move on

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:44 pm

If there was a vote concerning offering Warren a spot in the TVC, I'm assuming it was a vote to see which team to make an offer to. Perhaps teams are not against Warren being in the TVC, it's just that Warren was not the first choice of team to offer the 8th slot? For example, the vote could have been an up and down vote as to offer the final spot to Crooksville or Warren? If the spot was offered to Crooksville, as has been reported, the vote on Warren simply meant that TVC teams preferred Crooksville be offered first choice over Warren. In that case, the vote has nothing to do with teams not wanting Warren in the TVC - it just means that they wanted Crooksville to have first choice over everyone else. Now that Crooksville has turned down the offer - as has been stated previously - perhaps a vote on Warren would show different results among the TVC teams since Crooksville is out of the picture.

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:52 pm

The Warriors vs. Buckeyes rivalry lasted from 1967-1985 (1970-1985 were TVC league games). Over the 19 year span, NY won the all-time series with 11 wins, 7 losses, and 1 tie. H = NY home game and A = NY away game:

1967 Nelsonville-York (A) 22-6
1968 Nelsonville-York (H) 6-0
1969 Warren (A) 33-0
1970 Warren (H) 64-0
1971 Warren (A) 22-7
1972 Nelsonville-York (H) 39-6
1973 Warren (A) 14-7
1974 Tie (H) 0-0
1975 Warren (A) 15-0
1976 Nelsonville-York (H) 22-21
1977 Nelsonville-York (A) 41-0
1978 Nelsonville-York (H) 32-18
1979 Nelsonville-York (A) 20-6
1980 Nelsonville-York (H) 33-0
1981 Nelsonville-York (A) 34-13
1982 Nelsonville-York (H) 14-6
1983 Nelsonville-York (A) 8-0
1984 Warren (H) 19-14
1985 Warren (A) 25-8

When I researched NY football history, I found that this was a pretty intense rivalry. It was before my time, but I'm sure players from this era remember it fondly. Some of these games were played on Saturday night, so that shows their was special emphasis placed on this matchup. After Warren left the TVC following the '85-'86 school year, the rivalry was halted and the two teams have not faced each other in football since.

From my own personal interpretations from old newspaper articles, Warren, Belpre, and Trimble were the three premiere league rivalries for NY football in the '70s and '80s. I think NY vs. Warren could become a decent rivalry again if it was started back up again. This time, for a new generation of players and fans.

NYBuckeye96 · Post by **NYBuckeye96** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:42 pm

gahs4ever wrote:The TVC will NEVER accept SEOAL schools IMO.

I think the TVC has a long history of accepting SEOAL schools. Four of the seven TVC OHIO schools are longtime members of the SEOAL. The SEOAL only has three longtime members currently in the SEOAL. Makes you wonder who's next! :-D

Army · Post by **Army** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:26 pm

NYBuckeye96 wrote:
gahs4ever wrote:The TVC will NEVER accept SEOAL schools IMO.

I think the TVC has a long history of accepting SEOAL schools. Four of the seven TVC OHIO schools are longtime members of the SEOAL. The SEOAL only has three longtime members currently in the SEOAL. Makes you wonder who's next!

NYBuckeye96,

Ask Gahs4ever what the record is betwen Wellston and Gallipolis in Basketball and Baseball. Track too. They could compete, they were just tired of losing to Ironton, Logan and Athens in several sports. Yes I know....I can hear you already asking about the Football Record. Well it seems that N-Y, Wellston, Meigs and now Athens are all 4 charter members from the SEOAL and they are now in the TVC-Ohio. Whether you still cannot accept it, or not, there has been SEOAL Teams seeking other possibilities out there. Charter members to boot. One being, the Jackson Ironmen. They were attending TVC meetings up to just a couple of years ago.

I guess they got the hint that the TVC was not interested in them

There Posters love to talk a big line on here, that they are charter members and they are staying. From 1984-1990 they tried to get into the SOC II and SCOL. Both request were denied several times. Then they attended the TVC meetings from the mid-90's up until about 2005. There excuse was, they were just strickly observing, except they were doing a lot of politicing with those TVC schools, especially trying to get Wellston to speak up for there school. You see how that helped. The Wellston AD and Admin personnel behind doors laughed there heads off at Jackson coming to those TVC Meetings. Jackson I might add was the only school to vote no for the expansion.

Gahs4ever, I could see some saying yes to Warren Local coming back to the TVC-Ohio. Your arguement does not hold water. Look at all the SCOL Banners Circleville has in there GYM along with there trophies. I bet right now, if the Tigers requested to leave the MSL-Buckeye and rejoin the new SCOL to become the 8th member, they would be accepted in a heartbeat.

Unlike Chillicothe's request would be most likely a no. Why? Both are D3 Schools. Most schools still see Chillicothe as a D1 School down here in South Central and SE-Ohio.

Circleville was in the SCOL from 1923-1991 when it closed the first time. There are connections and rivals they still play from the SCOL. Chillicothe was a charter member of the SCOL from 1923-1941 and again 1944-1948. The only ties they have left to that league is Greenfield McClain and Hillsboro in several sports. We scrimmage Greenfield McClain every year in Football and our Jr.High Team plays them. 16 miles away..it's a close game. Washington C.H. and Miami-Trace in baseball and basketball at the Freshman and Middle School for the Boys and the Girls Varsity Sports.

I bet if London Madison Plains left or London left, Wilmington D3 from the Fort Ancient League would be re-accepted back into the SCOL too. They were also charter members from 1923-1991.

ARMY

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:35 pm

Army,

Can you ever make a post without saying something derogatory about Jackson? I'm glad that you know every move that the Jackson administration has(or hasn't) made since 1984. Maybe they should hire you to go around campaigning so that another league would invite them. I can't say that Jackson will not leave the SEOAL. I also can't say if they're really entertaining other options at this time. All I know is that Jackson has always been a member of the SEOAL and they haven't left yet. I don't know why that's so hard for you to accept.

Army · Post by **Army** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:53 pm

ironman02 wrote:Army,

Can you ever make a post without saying something derogatory about Jackson? I'm glad that you know every move that the Jackson administration has(or hasn't) made since 1984. Maybe they should hire you to go around campaigning so that another league would invite them. I can't say that Jackson will not leave the SEOAL. I also can't say if they're really entertaining other options at this time. All I know is that Jackson has always been a member of the SEOAL and they haven't left yet. I don't know why that's so hard for you to accept.

ironman02,

I am not making fun of Jackson. But everything I mentioned has happened, no matter how much you all try to paint the picture you have and always will be here.

1. Your Ironmen did try to get into two leagues from the mid-80's to the early 90's, those being the SOC II and SCOL.

2. Your Ironmen folks kept attending the TVC meetings from around the mid-90's up until a few years ago.

3. Wellston did laugh about that. Not at you, but why were you consistently showing up at those TVC meetings when you were supposed to be content in the SEOAL as Charters Members always and forever. Right?

4. Your school is the only one that voted against the SEOAL expansion.

5. We are not the charter members on here bragging we would never leave...but your history speaks elsewhere with eyes straying and options open and possibly seeking.

That's about it. I have nothing against you all...but don't join in on the Gahs4ever chatter and make it sound that Jackson will never look or stray or have ever contemplated on departing, even though you are here.

Why...3 reasons.

a. The SOC II told you no thanks.
b. The SCOL told you no thanks.

Those two above was after the SEOAL expanded and gained the new members, Marietta and Vincent Warren Local in the League?

c. The TVC-Ohio did not even offer you a chance to be considered for a vote. So where where else would your Ironmen go. No where but to stay in the SEOAL.

Army

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:03 am

Army,

I have never said that Jackson has not looked at other possibilities. I also have never said that Jackson will always be in the SEOAL. I have simply said that they have been a member of the SEOAL since its creation and they haven't left yet. I honestly don't see them leaving, either. That doesn't mean it won't happen sometime down the road, though.

I don't care what Wellston's administration thinks about anything. The fact that they laughed at the idea of Jackson in the TVC should tell you something.

Jackson did vote no for SEOAL expansion, but can you blame them? They saw what was coming and now it's happening. Hopefully the current trend doesn't continue.

You read people's posts and transform them into what you want to see...not what they actually say. So, for the last time. I don't know what the future holds for Jackson, but the past and present has been and is the SEOAL. Even if they have looked at other options in the past, those options did not work out and they have remained in the SEOAL.

Army · Post by **Army** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:13 am

ironman02 wrote:Army,

I have never said that Jackson has not looked at other possibilities. I also have never said that Jackson will always be in the SEOAL. I have simply said that they have been a member of the SEOAL since its creation and they haven't left yet. I honestly don't see them leaving, either. That doesn't mean it won't happen sometime down the road, though.

I don't care what Wellston's administration thinks about anything. The fact that they laughed at the idea of Jackson in the TVC should tell you something.

Jackson did vote no for SEOAL expansion, but can you blame them? They saw what was coming and now it's happening. Hopefully the current trend doesn't continue.

You read people's posts and transform them into what you want to see...not what they actually say. So, for the last time. I don't know what the future holds for Jackson, but the past and present has been the SEOAL. Even if they have looked at other options in the past, those options did not work out and they have remained in the SEOAL.

ironman02,

When we have discussed this issue...the always and redirected reply is...we are not going anywhere and we are charter.....blah, blah, blah and we have not wanted to go blah blah blah. So I think I pointed out in a genuine and methodical breakdown of Jacksons moves to leave the SEOAL or try too.

On the serious note, If Ironton does leave and Marietta actually leaves to form a league with Zanesville and 4 OVAC teams.....I wonder what Vincent Warren Local will do?

As I stated on here the other day, Chillicothe is here to stay along with Portsmouth and the three charter members if that's all is left standing in a few years. If Warren and Marietta stays even better. I still don't see Ironton hanging around. I wil be surprised if they do.

ARMY

ironman02 · Post by **ironman02** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:20 am

Army,

Yes, Jackson is a charter member. Yes, I don't personally see them leaving. However, I haven't said that it's not a possibility. I don't know how many times I have to say that before you actually understand it.

I'm not gonna play the "what if" game regarding Warren, Marietta, or Ironton because I honestly don't have any idea what will happen. I'm just going to wait and see how things play out.

I do hope that Chillicothe is here to stay. However, some of the things you have been posting don't correspond with what you've just said. You've talked about Chillicothe moving to the MSL, SCOL, or even going to independent recently if the SEOAL loses Marietta, Warren, and Ironton...or even if they just lose one or two of those schools.