Logan gets turned away from MSL again. Now what!?

[gator]

Now here is my opinion on the SEOAL, TVC, and others.

Let Logan, Jackson, and Warren into the TVC and split up into 3 divisions.

1.= Logan(2), Jackson(3), Athens(3), NY(5), Meigs(4), VC(3)

2.= Alexander(5), RV(5), Wellston(5), Warren(3), Trimble(7), Belpre(7)

3.= Wahama, Miller, Fed Hock, Southern, Eastern, Waterford, SG (all 7)

A good start! Let talk football and league affiliation.

Hypothetically, let's add Marietta(3) to the 1st section and Gallipolis(4) to the 2nd section. 21 team league, gives you 6 games in conference, 4 open dates, and allows rivlary games to still be played.

[Raider6309]

TVC travels a lot better than Logan, Jackson, Gallia, Warren, Marietta, Zanesville, Chillicothe, Ironton, and Portsmouth. The TVC would be stupid to add any schools

[lhsfan97]

Logan was very competitive against Lancaster in Half the games they played the last decade. Logan won 2 games back to back. Lost one game 24-21 on a last sec. made Field goal by the Gales. Lost 7-0, and lost last year 43-42.

Logan would beat Canal Winchester and Newark most years and would be able to compete with Lancaster, Zanesville, and groveport most years winning their share of games against those teams.

Football gate revenues would be very good for most of these matchups.

Travel costs would stay about the same for most schools but I feel like Logan would actually save money each year. with Zanesville and Logan being the two furthest teams are only about 45 miles apart.

All schools being D-3 or larger would be good for computer points.

Keeping the league at 6 teams would allow every school to keep old rivalries as non conference games.

All of the other sports in each school would be very competitive in my proposed league as well.

[TRENCHFOOT]

Logan was very competitive against Lancaster in Half the games they played the last decade. Logan won 2 games back to back. Lost one game 24-21 on a last sec. made Field goal by the Gales. Lost 7-0, and lost last year 43-42.

Logan would beat Canal Winchester and Newark most years and would be able to compete with Lancaster, Zanesville, and groveport most years winning their share of games against those teams.

Football gate revenues would be very good for most of these matchups.

Travel costs would stay about the same for most schools but I feel like Logan would actually save money each year. with Zanesville and Logan being the two furthest teams are only about 45 miles apart.

All schools being D-3 or larger would be good for computer points.

Keeping the league at 6 teams would allow every school to keep old rivalries as non conference games.

All of the other sports in each school would be very competitive in my proposed league as well.

Couldn't agree with ya anymore, on all the above. I like how you think.

[anderson2012]

I in no way speak for the MSL or any of its constituent schools, but I have a few thoughts that are formulated by sentiments and expressions I have heard and picked up on through the past year and a half. Someone such as bman would be able to comment further, however...

The MSL is not an 8-team league, it is a 21-school (not counting Madison Plains) league. Since the start of this current incarnation of the MSL, they have been trying to find a solution that ends up with a divisional layout of 8-8-8, not the current 8-8-6 or soon to be 8-7-6. Logan does not factor into these plans whatsoever.

The problem is that not all of the MSL schools are on the same page. Example: Northridge got denied entry into the MSL because there weren't enough votes cast across all 22 schools to meet the quorum. Yes, you read that right... ALL 22 (soon to be 21) vote on a new member. Also, it is the opinion of some that a few Fairfield County schools currently in the Buckeye (namely Liberty Union, but also some support from Fairfield Union and I have heard Amanda) would rather see a realignment where Fisher Catholic - because of the history, proximity, and the rekindling of old rivalries - is incorporated (although probably not for football) as opposed to Logan. Its not something I have heard for certain, but I know this is why they play FC in a bunch of non-football sports because of the interest and proximity. It also banks on some name brand. Logan, while a big school, does not generate much interest among folks at Liberty Union for example. It is what it is.

Right now, however, the MSL is keeping the Buckeye alive the way it is right now. No, they are not interested in Logan. Even if they were, incorporating Logan into some form of alignment would be on the ass end of the totem pole of priorities the MSL has to attend to. Their main priorities right now are finding two additional schools for the Cardinal (they just may have, I'm told) and finding a school to be #8 in the Ohio division. And, depending on what happens in a few years, you'll have a better chance of seeing the old Fairfield County alignment (or something darn near close) of the MSL than an MSL with Logan in it.

Further complicating matters for Logan is their thirst for a league. Licking County League?!?! Did anyone seriously think Logan, a good hour removed from the nearest Licking County school, was going to get in that?

[Logangrad]

Logan was very competitive against Lancaster in Half the games they played the last decade. Logan won 2 games back to back. Lost one game 24-21 on a last sec. made Field goal by the Gales. Lost 7-0, and lost last year 43-42.

Logan would beat Canal Winchester and Newark most years and would be able to compete with Lancaster, Zanesville, and groveport most years winning their share of games against those teams.

Football gate revenues would be very good for most of these matchups.

Travel costs would stay about the same for most schools but I feel like Logan would actually save money each year. with Zanesville and Logan being the two furthest teams are only about 45 miles apart.

All schools being D-3 or larger would be good for computer points.

Keeping the league at 6 teams would allow every school to keep old rivalries as non conference games.

All of the other sports in each school would be very competitive in my proposed league as well.

Competitive?? Maybe 2 or 3 years. Logan went 2-9 vs Lancaster from 2004-14. Thats the bottom line. Ws and Ls. It made no sense to keep playing IMO.

[Old Bulldog]

Logan, Jackson, Chillicothe, Athens, Lancaster, Gallia Acad. & Teays Valley?
I'm sure some of those schools are not interested, and Lancaster may be too darn big, but there are plenty of others around that wouldn't mind being in a different league.
Canal Winchester, Warren, Circleville, Groveport, Newark, Zanesville any of those would also work.

[ONE OF A KIND]

Now here is my opinion on the SEOAL, TVC, and others.

Let Logan, Jackson, and Warren into the TVC and split up into 3 divisions.

1.= Logan(2), Jackson(3), Athens(3), NY(5), Meigs(4), VC(3)

2.= Alexander(5), RV(5), Wellston(5), Warren(3), Trimble(7), Belpre(7)

3.= Wahama, Miller, Fed Hock, Southern, Eastern, Waterford, SG (all 7)

Time to stop beating that dead horse. While NY is in favor of this it has been voted down at least 5 times. The last time was a resounding 2 yes - 14 no votes. It just is not going to happen. I think if Logan and Jackson would spend as much time wooing a few other schools to join the SEOAL as they have trying to shame the TVC into taking them in they might have more success. Jackson had their town mayor write a letter the all the TVC schools for gosh sakes. Spend energy on a few schools closer to your size and who knows they might agree to join you.

[greyhoundsbob]

Marietta and Athens should be in the SEOAL along with Logan, Jackson, and Warren. They are the 5 largest schools in southeastern Ohio and all should be in the same league period. It's not like there are a bunch of division 2 and 3 schools in the immediate area to choose from. These are basically the only ones without venturing into MSL territory. Athens has pretty much screwed the other large schools in the area with their choice to participate in the TVC. I do think Marietta would possibly be receptive to this idea if you could get Athens on board.

SEOAL
Logan
Jackson
Warren
Marietta
Athens

TVC OHIO
Vinton County
Meigs
Nelsonville-York
River Valley
Wellston
Alexander

[Logangrad]

I in no way speak for the MSL or any of its constituent schools, but I have a few thoughts that are formulated by sentiments and expressions I have heard and picked up on through the past year and a half. Someone such as bman would be able to comment further, however...

The MSL is not an 8-team league, it is a 21-school (not counting Madison Plains) league. Since the start of this current incarnation of the MSL, they have been trying to find a solution that ends up with a divisional layout of 8-8-8, not the current 8-8-6 or soon to be 8-7-6. Logan does not factor into these plans whatsoever.

The problem is that not all of the MSL schools are on the same page. Example: Northridge got denied entry into the MSL because there weren't enough votes cast across all 22 schools to meet the quorum. Yes, you read that right... ALL 22 (soon to be 21) vote on a new member. Also, it is the opinion of some that a few Fairfield County schools currently in the Buckeye (namely Liberty Union, but also some support from Fairfield Union and I have heard Amanda) would rather see a realignment where Fisher Catholic - because of the history, proximity, and the rekindling of old rivalries - is incorporated (although probably not for football) as opposed to Logan. Its not something I have heard for certain, but I know this is why they play FC in a bunch of non-football sports because of the interest and proximity. It also banks on some name brand. Logan, while a big school, does not generate much interest among folks at Liberty Union for example. It is what it is.

Right now, however, the MSL is keeping the Buckeye alive the way it is right now. No, they are not interested in Logan. Even if they were, incorporating Logan into some form of alignment would be on the booty end of the totem pole of priorities the MSL has to attend to. Their main priorities right now are finding two additional schools for the Cardinal (they just may have, I'm told) and finding a school to be #8 in the Ohio division. And, depending on what happens in a few years, you'll have a better chance of seeing the old Fairfield County alignment (or something darn near close) of the MSL than an MSL with Logan in it.

Further complicating matters for Logan is their thirst for a league. Licking County League?!?! Did anyone seriously think Logan, a good hour removed from the nearest Licking County school, was going to get in that?

great info!! thanks

[anderson2012]

On a different note, I feel as if Logan is the problem in this mess. Allow me to explain...

The time for Logan to have expressed interest to the MSL was five-to-seven years ago. The MSL was going to re-align because of the balance issues created with Licking Heights rapidly growing (to the point of becoming a D2 in football) and competing in a division where the next largest school was a small D5 (Liberty Union). Then with Canal Winchester on its way to the Ohio Capital Conference, it created an opening for a school in the Buckeye Division. Then the floodgates opened with the Licking County League poaching six schools from the MSL, there was ample opportunity for Logan to come in and be a player. For whatever reasons Logan had, it appears they did not want to be a part of the MSL.

If I'm a conference commissioner or a representative with voting power in the conference, I do not want a school that wants to join because it is homeless and needs a league. I want a school that WANTS to be a part of my league and has been wanting for a while. I also am curious as to what this school can bring to the table into the community aspect of the league. I think that was a big factor that led to the LCL saying "nah" to Logan. For example, Logan does virtually all of their biddy through the SEO league and a league in Lancaster. Nothing wrong with that, but then to expect these kids once they get to junior high are going to grow excitement toward playing Utica, Watkins, etc? Its a stretch, and it makes you wonder about the quality of the crowds being had. It also seems as if Logan repeatedly asking the MSL no longer is desperation but arrogance. "What do you mean you DON'T want us?"? "We're Logan, we're a big school and we bring tons of fans." While it's great Logan brings fans and has a bunch of kids, they're trying to get in the MSL Buckeye which is arguably one of the strongest traditions in Central Ohio sports. No school except for Circleville has been able to get in that really close-knit, Fairfield County dominated part of the league for the past twenty years or so now. I hate to put it blunt, but they want schools where the parents remember playing the Aces, the Falcons, the Bulldogs in all sports and will reverberate that tradition. They are reasonably skeptical about bringing a school that is generally unknown (yes, I realize Logan plays the MSL-B in some sports, not the point I'm getting at) from a tradition standpoint. They want their new addition to be all about playing FU, AC, BC etc and not hung up on not playing Portsmouth, Jackson, any other school that sits on the Ohio river etc.




edit; thanks Logan grad

[Logangrad]

Logan actually did apply then and was turned away from 3 schools from the people I know in the know. So it wasnt bc they knew they were going to be homeless; it was bc it made more sense then to travel less north rather than more south. Logan has been in contact with the MSL for a few years now and this is the SECOND time they have been told thanks but no thanks.

[anderson2012]

Logan actually did apply then and was turned away from 3 schools from the people I know in the know. So it wasnt bc they knew they were going to be homeless; it was bc it made more sense then to travel less north rather than more south. Logan has been in contact with the MSL for a few years now and this is the SECOND time they have been told thanks but no thanks.

Good perspective, I didn't actually know this. Thanks for sharing.

Seems like Logan's chances of getting in the MSL are bleak. Sad to see, but hopefully the OCC can work Logan in. I feel for the kids. Good luck Logan... "it gets better"

[LHS 72]

Logan actually did apply then and was turned away from 3 schools from the people I know in the know. So it wasnt bc they knew they were going to be homeless; it was bc it made more sense then to travel less north rather than more south. Logan has been in contact with the MSL for a few years now and this is the SECOND time they have been told thanks but no thanks.

Good perspective, I didn't actually know this. Thanks for sharing.

Seems like Logan's chances of getting in the MSL are bleak. Sad to see, but hopefully the OCC can work Logan in. I feel for the kids. Good luck Logan... "it gets better"

We will Never Ever Give Up! Opportunities happens everyday!

[Paladin]

Thats too touchy, feelly, fc. The REAL reasons schools join leagues is for competition, closeness for travel, comparable size and numbers of sports played, both boys and girls. While that doesn't always happen, its the starting point.

I see no reason for alarm here. Logan will be fine. The best bet at this time is a reformed SEOAL with Marietta returning, Athens growing a set of gonads again and adding a returning Gallia, or a WV team or possible VC to the mix for a 6 team league . My personal preferance is for Logan to get into a D-II OCC division. They would still have relationships with former SEOAL teams or MSL ( as they do now) for non-league games. I have no problem picking up a DeSales or Watterson team either. Lord knows , no one down in the hills grows that big a set of gonads to play those folks. Most of the problems stem from Logan being "too far" away or frankly, being too good. The chances of Zanesville returning are NO WAY. They frankly have no interest long term and seek better competition for both basketball and football. While scheduling will be challenging, it will not be impossible. Logan can roll with the punches while looking for a new home or expanding the SEOAL in the meantime. Eventually, it will work out.

[C-Bolt]

Logan was very competitive against Lancaster in Half the games they played the last decade. Logan won 2 games back to back. Lost one game 24-21 on a last sec. made Field goal by the Gales. Lost 7-0, and lost last year 43-42.

Logan would beat Canal Winchester and Newark most years and would be able to compete with Lancaster, Zanesville, and groveport most years winning their share of games against those teams.

Football gate revenues would be very good for most of these matchups.

Travel costs would stay about the same for most schools but I feel like Logan would actually save money each year. with Zanesville and Logan being the two furthest teams are only about 45 miles apart.

All schools being D-3 or larger would be good for computer points.

Keeping the league at 6 teams would allow every school to keep old rivalries as non conference games.

All of the other sports in each school would be very competitive in my proposed league as well.

Couldn't agree with ya anymore, on all the above. I like how you think.

I like this too,Logan would compete well and could get some new fresh rivalries going,but we'll probably never see it happen.Like the new basketball coach says they need to go north instead of south for games.

[TRENCHFOOT]

Logan was very competitive against Lancaster in Half the games they played the last decade. Logan won 2 games back to back. Lost one game 24-21 on a last sec. made Field goal by the Gales. Lost 7-0, and lost last year 43-42.

Logan would beat Canal Winchester and Newark most years and would be able to compete with Lancaster, Zanesville, and groveport most years winning their share of games against those teams.

Football gate revenues would be very good for most of these matchups.

Travel costs would stay about the same for most schools but I feel like Logan would actually save money each year. with Zanesville and Logan being the two furthest teams are only about 45 miles apart.

All schools being D-3 or larger would be good for computer points.

Keeping the league at 6 teams would allow every school to keep old rivalries as non conference games.

All of the other sports in each school would be very competitive in my proposed league as well.

Couldn't agree with ya anymore, on all the above. I like how you think.

I like this too,Logan would compete well and could get some new fresh rivalries going,but we'll probably never see it happen.Like the new basketball coach says they need to go north instead of south for games.

Yeah, The Chiefs did play Lancaster in close games but come up short, still competitive imo. Never know now what Billy could have done. Very good idea you have here lhsfan97.

[Orange and Brown]

Logans only real hope is to find a couple of schools to join the SEOAL. They have zero leagues who want them or Jackson.

Time to go south and try to get Parkersburg and South to join the league and then hold steady at 5 teams for a few years. Maybe then when some other schools see some stability, the SEOAL can add another school or 2.
Things we do know....
The TVC wants nothing to do with Logan and Jackson as league members.

Trying to add Meigs or VC to the SEOAL will never happen either.

Gallia isn't coming back to the SEOAL. They are a good fit for the OVC.

Things we don't know.......

At some point, maybe Athens decided the want to leave the TVC (doubtful).....

Maybe Marrietta decides they want to give the SEOAL another try if Parkersburg and South join.

I hope Logan finds a home, but I just don't know if it will happen.

That's my 2 cents........

[bman]

On a different note, I feel as if Logan is the problem in this mess. Allow me to explain...

The time for Logan to have expressed interest to the MSL was five-to-seven years ago. The MSL was going to re-align because of the balance issues created with Licking Heights rapidly growing (to the point of becoming a D2 in football) and competing in a division where the next largest school was a small D5 (Liberty Union). Then with Canal Winchester on its way to the Ohio Capital Conference, it created an opening for a school in the Buckeye Division. Then the floodgates opened with the Licking County League poaching six schools from the MSL, there was ample opportunity for Logan to come in and be a player. For whatever reasons Logan had, it appears they did not want to be a part of the MSL.

If I'm a conference commissioner or a representative with voting power in the conference, I do not want a school that wants to join because it is homeless and needs a league. I want a school that WANTS to be a part of my league and has been wanting for a while. I also am curious as to what this school can bring to the table into the community aspect of the league. I think that was a big factor that led to the LCL saying "nah" to Logan. For example, Logan does virtually all of their biddy through the SEO league and a league in Lancaster. Nothing wrong with that, but then to expect these kids once they get to junior high are going to grow excitement toward playing Utica, Watkins, etc? Its a stretch, and it makes you wonder about the quality of the crowds being had. It also seems as if Logan repeatedly asking the MSL no longer is desperation but arrogance. "What do you mean you DON'T want us?"? "We're Logan, we're a big school and we bring tons of fans." While it's great Logan brings fans and has a bunch of kids, they're trying to get in the MSL Buckeye which is arguably one of the strongest traditions in Central Ohio sports. No school except for Circleville has been able to get in that really close-knit, Fairfield County dominated part of the league for the past twenty years or so now. I hate to put it blunt, but they want schools where the parents remember playing the Aces, the Falcons, the Bulldogs in all sports and will reverberate that tradition. They are reasonably skeptical about bringing a school that is generally unknown (yes, I realize Logan plays the MSL-B in some sports, not the point I'm getting at) from a tradition standpoint. They want their new addition to be all about playing FU, AC, BC etc and not hung up on not playing Portsmouth, Jackson, any other school that sits on the Ohio river etc.




edit; thanks Logan grad

The four Fairfield County schools have been members of the MSL since they formed via consolidation in the 1950s/1960s. Logan Elm joined in the mid-1970s, Teays Valley and Hamilton Township joined in the 1980s and Circleville in the early 1990s. So four of the schools have been together for 50 years or more and five for four decades. Very stable.

Canal Winchester was also a member since the early 1960s before it left and some of the old guard up there wish they were still in the league. Short travel, good rivalries and good gates.

Circleville is the only charter member of the SCOL not playing in the SCOL and declined an invitation to return when the league reformed early last decade. That also says something about the MSL.

[1987chieftains]

Just talked to a buddy of mine at who graduated and has kids at TV. He said from what he has heard over the past few years of Logan wanting to join is "travel times". When most folks in the MSL/TV hear Logan, they think they are having to drive to the Ohio river. To us, a 45 mins travel on a week night to a game is outstanding bc we've grown up traveling to Gallia or Etta on a week night for a game. Folks in the MSL have never had to travel much outside of 30 mins on a regular bases.