Thoughts on Field Turf

[warningtrackpower]

Great discussion this week about field turf on SVC Sports Talk. Like it? Don't like it? Worth the money in short term? Long term?

Here is a link to listen (starts in 13th minute - just FF over) . . . http://www.dbkmediaservices.com/wordpre ... talk083115

Would be great to hear from people from schools who have it-who want it-who don't want it.

THANKS FOR FEEDBACK

[sballchck]

It takes a piece of ground that is used 5 times a year, and turns it into a facility that can be used by ALL students at all times of the year. I used to be opposed to it, but seeing schools who have it utilize the turf, it's one of the best investments in facilities a school can make, if they have a plan (or generous donor) to pay for it, IMO

[anderson2012]

The jury is still out on whether or not field turf causes cancer, so definitely a big "no".

[fbnut]

It takes a piece of ground that is used 5 times a year, and turns it into a facility that can be used by ALL students at all times of the year. I used to be opposed to it, but seeing schools who have it utilize the turf, it's one of the best investments in facilities a school can make, if they have a plan (or generous donor) to pay for it, IMO

What he said

[smurray]

It's a no brainer. The money Waverly was socking into playing in mud every year, are you kidding me. It pays for itself and you are able to host playoff games. Waverly already has a D3 girls soccer tournament game to host and there is more renovations to be completed next year.
I don't buy the whole "cancer" thing either.

[anderson2012]

It's a no brainer. The money Waverly was socking into playing in mud every year, are you kidding me. It pays for itself and you are able to host playoff games. Waverly already has a D3 girls soccer tournament game to host and there is more renovations to be completed next year.
I don't buy the whole "cancer" thing either.

By and large turf consists of what was at one point a shredded tire or something awfully similar. http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/investig ... /29524033/

Also, putting cancer in quotation marks for this just makes you look ignorant. It is pretty widely acknowledged there may be a direct correlation between extended exposure to benzothiazole and cancer. The fact more and more schools pursue turf in spite of this boggles my mind. I suppose if you share the field with another school or have soccer it could be a good idea. As long its not saddled on the back of taxpayers...

[courier]

I guess one needs to define extended exposure to benzothiazole to get a better understanding of what the dangers are to younger athletes. Isn't this the same turf used by most NFL teams, and if so, how many of those athletes are stricken with cancer as it relates to field turf? Arguably, NFL players/coaches have far greater exposure to the stuff over the course of their careers than most high school athletes...

[anderson2012]

I guess one needs to define extended exposure to benzothiazole to get a better understanding of what the dangers are to younger athletes. Isn't this the same turf used by most NFL teams, and if so, how many of those athletes are stricken with cancer as it relates to field turf? Arguably, NFL players/coaches have far greater exposure to the stuff over the course of their careers than most high school athletes...

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigati ... ys-n220166

Soccer coach Amy Griffin was in a Seattle hospital visiting a young goalie who was receiving chemotherapy when a nurse said something that made the hair on Griffin's neck stand up.

It was 2009. Two young female goalies Griffin knew had been diagnosed with non-Hodgkin lymphoma. Griffin, associate head coach for the University of Washington's women's soccer team, had started to visit the women and other athletes in local hospitals, helping them pass the time during chemo with war stories from her three decades of coaching.

That day, the nurse looked down at the woman Griffin was sitting with and said, "Don't tell me you guys are goalkeepers. You're the fourth goalkeeper I've hooked up this week."

Later, the young woman with the chemo needle in her arm would say, "I just have a feeling it has something to do with those black dots."

Artificial turf fields are now everywhere in the United States, from high schools to multi-million-dollar athletic complexes. As any parent or player who has been on them can testify, the tiny black rubber crumbs of which the fields are made -- chunks of old tires -- get everywhere. In players' uniforms, in their hair, in their cleats.

"I've coached for 26, 27 years," she said. "My first 15 years, I never heard anything about this. All of a sudden it seems to be a stream of kids."

Since then, Griffin has compiled a list of 38 American soccer players -- 34 of them goalies - who have been diagnosed with cancer. At least a dozen played in Washington, but the geographic spread is nationwide. Blood cancers like lymphoma and leukemia dominate the list.

In practices and games, they make hundreds of dives, and each plunge sends a black cloud of tire pellets into the air. The granules get into their cuts and scrapes, and into their mouths. Griffin wondered if those crumbs - which have been known to contain carcinogens and chemicals - were making players sick.

No research has linked cancer to artificial turf. Griffin collected names through personal experience with sick players, and acknowledges that her list is not a scientific data set. But it's enough to make her ask whether crumb rubber artificial turf, a product that has been rolled out in tens of thousands of parks, playgrounds, schools and stadiums in the U.S., is safe for the athletes and kids who play on it. Others across the country are raising similar questions, arguing that the now-ubiquitous material, made out of synthetic fibers and scrap tire -- which can contain benzene, carbon black and lead, among other substances -- has not been adequately tested. Few studies have measured the risk of ingesting crumb rubber orally, for example.

[courier]

Nice article...I'd personally would want to see more scientific data and information...I'm in no way disputing or minimizing the belief of the individual either...Quite frankly, I don't have clue if field turf does or doesn't cause cancer...

[anderson2012]

Nice article...I'd personally would want to see more scientific data and information...I'm in no way disputing or minimizing the belief of the individual either...Quite frankly, I don't have clue if field turf does or doesn't cause cancer...

I don't disagree with what you are saying. Yes, there needs to be more scientific data and information, but do keep in mind this claim has really only been in the national spotlight for about a year. It'll take more than a few years to get a truly scientific answer to whether or not it does cause cancer, but even if it doesn't, it still should scare the hell out of people that kids are exposed to some of the risks pertaining to the material's toxicity as found in a backyard full of tires.The article mentions it getting into cuts, scrapes, hair, even (presumably accidental) oral ingestion, but I am going to go ahead and postulate that it is definitely not something you want to get caught in sweaty socks when playing or practicing either.

[courier]

All valid points as far as I'm concerned. I certainly wouldn't be dismissive of any concerns as it relates to children playing a game.

[noreply66]

Nice article...I'd personally would want to see more scientific data and information...I'm in no way disputing or minimizing the belief of the individual either...Quite frankly, I don't have clue if field turf does or doesn't cause cancer...

Has anyone put out anything on cancer where the turf is manufactured. This would be a great place to start with these worker being in direct contact day after day.

[george]

I don't know about the cancer problems or the possible MERSA problems. That's much above my intelligence level.

I know getting 5 games out of a grass field (pasture) is asking for a lot. Most fields are like Goldilocks. If the season is too dry the field is reduced to dust .. If one good rainfall occurs during use .. the grass is also destroyed.

Also, I want to know what schools only use their field 5 times. Varsity game or JV game every week. Possible freshman game .. 7th and 8th grade .. youth football. I know our field is used at least 4 times per week just for football. Add in Girls/Boys soccer ... Band contest along with half time shows.

Not to mention the increased revenue from hosting outside events (playoffs).

Some talk about the expense of Turf ... they forget to include the expense of grass ... you should have a watering system (underground or above ground) ... Someone has to cut, line it and such. Of course, some schools get a volunteer to take care of it, but not all should be expected to find someone willing to give up so much time.

Yes .. Turf is more expensive. I doubt the turf will ever pay for itself. I like it and am glad our school raised the money to get it installed.

[4thgoal]

I agree that more testing should be done to see if the claim of cancer are valid. There are also chemical hazards related to grass fields (fertilizer, grass seed, paint, gasoline, etc...). I guess we should play on organically grown grass, with organic based paints, and cut the fields with solar powered mowers.

[anderson2012]

I agree that more testing should be done to see if the claim of cancer are valid. There are also chemical hazards related to grass fields (fertilizer, grass seed, paint, gasoline, etc...). I guess we should play on organically grown grass, with organic based paints, and cut the fields with solar powered mowers.

While you're not wrong that the those items can be chemical hazards, they are only hazardous in a raw state before and in the worst case, during the process of, application onto a grass field. With a typical cycle of water and sunlight over a few days, the toxic components of say Scotts' Fertilizer or whatever a groundkeep crew uses will have already absorbed into the leaves. Fertilizer, along with the other items you mention, pose the same invariable risk to kids as products of polymerization (styrofoam, teflon/PTFE, plastics found pens and their caps). The production of those materials is definitely ugly and unsafe, but they put out products we accept to be safe to humans. The ground rubber of field turf however can not disintegrate. Ask yourself this, if the toxic potential of a grass field was the same as, or even marginally lower, than that of field turf... then why haven't people started to abandon grass in favor of field turf for their lawns? And why hasn't more suppliers entered into that hypothetical, perceived-to-be untapped market?

[fbnut]

More than 50 technical studies have been conducted during the past two decades which review the health effects of
crumb rubber. These have analyzed the material as it pertains to inhalation, ingestion and dermal contact, as well as cancer.
Comparable to the Act Global Crumb Rubber Safety Study, the preponderance of evidence shows no negative health
effects associated with crumb rubber in synthetic turf.
Artificial turf is cost-effective, safe, highly resilient, and improves access to sports for children around the world.
A durable synthetic turf can withstand greater usage than natural grass, and accommodate multiple sports
and activities, even in inclement weather conditions, which may explain why there are around 11000 turf feilds around the globe.

[4thgoal]

Believe me, I have told my other half that I would love to have a field turf lawn and get rid of the John Deere! If I was able to justify the cost, it would have already happened. Imagine having a back yard pre-lined for wiffle ball, football, soccer....all in different colored lines! All the kids from around the neighborhood would love it.

From another article...

Because different types of tires made from a large variety of materials are used to make the turf, it is hard to pinpoint the particular chemicals that could be causing the increase in cancer rates. The EPA lists mercury, lead, benzene and arsenic as well as other chemicals and carcinogens as being the ingredients in tires.

“If you look at the ingredients that go into a car tire, some people take those ingredients and turn them into health concerns, but after the vulcanization process, those ingredients are inert.”

[Whodey]

C'mon man.

There are more health/cancer causing agents in the artificial butter on the popcorn; coloring in the diet Mt Dew; dogs/brats; and melted "cheese" served with the nachos at the concession stand. The ingestion from the food at the games by the fans is worse than whatever the players are "ingesting".

The debate against field turf or natural grass is legitimate but not because of cancer.

If your field is as bad as Jackson was that we played at Saturday and is not going to be replaced in its useful lifetime then just stick with grass. We and they had players slipping all night long. Ridiculous. If you can afford to put it down for pete's sake be sure you can replace it when you need to...simple math...but they must be teaching common core down there.

[george]

4th and goal nailed it

[anderson2012]

Yes, those are good arguments and references. Good discussion, guys. I had long been skeptical about field turf because of the perceived danger, but there is some good reasoning and factoids I hadn't previously considered regarding the topic, so that's good enough for me. *thumbs up*


I will say there is nothing unsightly than a grass field that looks disheveled!