SEOAL 2010

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

West is the Washington-Nile school district. .

[wrestler87]

It is a good point that larger schools spread their athletes among secondary sports though. Soccer/Wrestling/ Football/B-ball or Baseball/Track etc. I remember when my wrestling team beat our league champion H.S. varsity basketball team in a "Conditioning" practice (overlapped scheduling) once at basketball. Until we stopped playing the "No blood no foul" to even it out for us. lol
Many athletes at schools which don't offer certain sports are likely to play the other with friends.
I could even see a certain degree of validity in moving a team up a division if players don't have the opportunity to play other "same-season" sports. I know there are too many factors that would make that impossible, yet see a degree of fairness too.

[bman]

Thanks for the info Trojan. I had always assumed Portsmouth West was part of the city district like Pickerington North and Pickerington Central was the Pickerington Local District. Nice to know correctly know.

[teach1coach2]

Here are attendance numbers from Ohio Dept of Ed. (lastest numbers from last school year -Oct. 08)

School K G1 G2 G3 G4 G5 G6 G7 G8 G9 G10 G11 G12 Total 2010 2012 2014 2016
Logan 296 329 306 305 277 304 294 327 290 282 312 340 327 3989 #1 899 #1 925 #1 886 #1 940
Chilli 263 249 202 223 240 234 192 239 225 258 251 211 217 3004 #2 722 #2 665 #2 697 #2 674
Marietta 206 235 202 218 222 211 219 233 223 257 241 267 214 2948 #3 713 Who cares!
Warren 192 172 209 189 195 191 207 220 202 246 221 205 191 2640 #4 668 #3 618 #4 575 #4 570
Jackson 185 163 191 208 194 207 173 192 206 202 191 219 204 2535 #5 600 #4 572 #3 609 #5 562
Gallia 193 171 202 184 175 192 193 163 184 202 209 192 169 2429 #6 549 #5 548 #5 551 #6 557
Ports 195 206 182 187 159 160 166 114 130 136 145 122 111 2013 #7 380 #6 440 #6 506 #3 575

The 2010 thur 2016 above are the number of students 9-11 (like OHSAA uses) IF no students move in or out. Notice that Portsmouth has some larger classes coming and would be 3rd largest school in 2016.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

It is a good point that larger schools spread their athletes among secondary sports though. Soccer/Wrestling/ Football/B-ball or Baseball/Track etc. I remember when my wrestling team beat our league champion H.S. varsity basketball team in a "Conditioning" practice (overlapped scheduling) once at basketball. Until we stopped playing the "No blood no foul" to even it out for us. lol
Many athletes at schools which don't offer certain sports are likely to play the other with friends.
I could even see a certain degree of validity in moving a team up a division if players don't have the opportunity to play other "same-season" sports. I know there are too many factors that would make that impossible, yet see a degree of fairness too.

Let’s examine this topic more.
Logan has 10 boy’s sports. These sports are Baseball Basketball Bowling Cross country Football Golf Soccer Tennis Track and Wrestling. With an enrollment of 453 boys they have an average of 45.3 boys per sport.
Portsmouth has 8 boy’s sports. These sports are Baseball Basketball Cross country Football Golf Swimming Tennis and Track. With an enrollment of 204 boys they have an average of 25.5 boys per sport.
Obviously not every boy in either school will participate in a sport, and some will participate in multiple sports. In previous post we have shown that both schools have different factors that hinder participation, however it was shown that these factors were relatively equal, meaning that the percentage of participation would be similar. What this means is that a larger school such as Logan who offers more sports still have more boys per sport to go around then a smaller school like Portsmouth who offers fewer sports.
I believe that I have proven my point that it is undeniable that larger schools have an advantage over smaller schools, because even though they may offer more sports smaller schools who offer less actually have more opportunities per student.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Here are attendance numbers from Ohio Dept of Ed. (lastest numbers from last school year -Oct. 08)

School K G1 G2 G3 G4 G5 G6 G7 G8 G9 G10 G11 G12 Total 2010 2012 2014 2016
Logan 296 329 306 305 277 304 294 327 290 282 312 340 327 3989 #1 899 #1 925 #1 886 #1 940
Chilli 263 249 202 223 240 234 192 239 225 258 251 211 217 3004 #2 722 #2 665 #2 697 #2 674
Marietta 206 235 202 218 222 211 219 233 223 257 241 267 214 2948 #3 713 Who cares!
Warren 192 172 209 189 195 191 207 220 202 246 221 205 191 2640 #4 668 #3 618 #4 575 #4 570
Jackson 185 163 191 208 194 207 173 192 206 202 191 219 204 2535 #5 600 #4 572 #3 609 #5 562
Gallia 193 171 202 184 175 192 193 163 184 202 209 192 169 2429 #6 549 #5 548 #5 551 #6 557
Ports 195 206 182 187 159 160 166 114 130 136 145 122 111 2013 #7 380 #6 440 #6 506 #3 575

The 2010 thur 2016 above are the number of students 9-11 (like OHSAA uses) IF no students move in or out. Notice that Portsmouth has some larger classes coming and would be 3rd largest school in 2016.

If these students stay in the district you are correct, however it seems like many students leave to go to the county schools after elementary school.
These numbers are also skewed because I believe they contain the students from East Portsmouth Elementary. 90 percent or maybe more of these students will attend Sciotoville Community (formally Portsmouth East) when they reach high school.

[noreply66]

Here are attendance numbers from Ohio Dept of Ed. (lastest numbers from last school year -Oct. 08)

School K G1 G2 G3 G4 G5 G6 G7 G8 G9 G10 G11 G12 Total 2010 2012 2014 2016
Logan 296 329 306 305 277 304 294 327 290 282 312 340 327 3989 #1 899 #1 925 #1 886 #1 940
Chilli 263 249 202 223 240 234 192 239 225 258 251 211 217 3004 #2 722 #2 665 #2 697 #2 674
Marietta 206 235 202 218 222 211 219 233 223 257 241 267 214 2948 #3 713 Who cares!
Warren 192 172 209 189 195 191 207 220 202 246 221 205 191 2640 #4 668 #3 618 #4 575 #4 570
Jackson 185 163 191 208 194 207 173 192 206 202 191 219 204 2535 #5 600 #4 572 #3 609 #5 562
Gallia 193 171 202 184 175 192 193 163 184 202 209 192 169 2429 #6 549 #5 548 #5 551 #6 557
Ports 195 206 182 187 159 160 166 114 130 136 145 122 111 2013 #7 380 #6 440 #6 506 #3 575

The 2010 thur 2016 above are the number of students 9-11 (like OHSAA uses) IF no students move in or out. Notice that Portsmouth has some larger classes coming and would be 3rd largest school in 2016.

Looks like Chillicothe has alot of dropouts between K/GI-lol

[noreply66]

It is a good point that larger schools spread their athletes among secondary sports though. Soccer/Wrestling/ Football/B-ball or Baseball/Track etc. I remember when my wrestling team beat our league champion H.S. varsity basketball team in a "Conditioning" practice (overlapped scheduling) once at basketball. Until we stopped playing the "No blood no foul" to even it out for us. lol
Many athletes at schools which don't offer certain sports are likely to play the other with friends.
I could even see a certain degree of validity in moving a team up a division if players don't have the opportunity to play other "same-season" sports. I know there are too many factors that would make that impossible, yet see a degree of fairness too.

Let’s examine this topic more.
Logan has 10 boy’s sports. These sports are Baseball Basketball Bowling Cross country Football Golf Soccer Tennis Track and Wrestling. With an enrollment of 453 boys they have an average of 45.3 boys per sport.
Portsmouth has 8 boy’s sports. These sports are Baseball Basketball Cross country Football Golf Swimming Tennis and Track. With an enrollment of 204 boys they have an average of 25.5 boys per sport.
Obviously not every boy in either school will participate in a sport, and some will participate in multiple sports. In previous post we have shown that both schools have different factors that hinder participation, however it was shown that these factors were relatively equal, meaning that the percentage of participation would be similar. What this means is that a larger school such as Logan who offers more sports still have more boys per sport to go around then a smaller school like Portsmouth who offers fewer sports.
I believe that I have proven my point that it is undeniable that larger schools have an advantage over smaller schools, because even though they may offer more sports smaller schools who offer less actually have more opportunities per student.

Logan has 11 they started a new one this year

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Logan has 11 they started a new one this year

What new sport did they add? I just got my info off of the OHSAA website and did what they had for them.

With 11 that changes Logan's boys per sport to 41.1.

[noreply66]

Logan has 11 they started a new one this year

What new sport did they add? I just got my info off of the OHSAA website and did what they had for them.

With 11 that changes Logan's boys per sport to 41.1.

they do have a boys and girls archery team--but I don't know how it is counted

[wrestler87]

Portsmouth and other schools offer different amounts, they might not be one who would raise divisions. I didn't really think it was enough of a difference myself. Just could see a "Sliver" of validity in the reasoning. I know it's not enough, and impossible to actually justify a change. Just that with the # of sports added to the other factors makes some schools from the same division unequal. Offering different amounts of extracurricular activities, and the disbursement of the districts are one. Also, some districts have more popular activities outside of sports which also detract from sports.
For instance, my niece and my daughter, both from different districts, were on a 12-U and 14-U softball team, both of which went deep into the USSSA Softball World Series-Each went with their friends to do other things their friends did. Theater, Hilltop Singers, Band, Chess Club and a few others between the 2 of them. Opportunities not available or not as popular in other districts. I just wanted to add a bit to chew on to the conversation.
I don't think that's enough of a factor IMO to make division jumps myself.
You are correct.
There are D-2 schools, not that I can name any, but bet so-That don't offer near the same level of activities Logan (or many others) does. On the other hand, there are some smaller districts which offer Gymnastics or swimming-maybe even hockey (not sure) which Logan does not offer. Just a thought.

[noreply66]

Portsmouth and other schools offer different amounts, they might not be one who would raise divisions. I didn't really think it was enough of a difference myself. Just could see a "Sliver" of validity in the reasoning. I know it's not enough, and impossible to actually justify a change. Just that with the # of sports added to the other factors makes some schools from the same division unequal. Offering different amounts of extracurricular activities, and the disbursement of the districts are one. Also, some districts have more popular activities outside of sports which also detract from sports.
For instance, my niece and my daughter, both from different districts, were on a 12-U and 14-U softball team, both of which went deep into the USSSA Softball World Series-Each went with their friends to do other things their friends did. Theater, Hilltop Singers, Band, Chess Club and a few others between the 2 of them. Opportunities not available or not as popular in other districts. I just wanted to add a bit to chew on to the conversation.
I don't think that's enough of a factor IMO to make division jumps myself.
You are correct.
There are D-2 schools, not that I can name any, but bet so-That don't offer near the same level of activities Logan (or many others) does. On the other hand, there are some smaller districts which offer Gymnastics or swimming-maybe even hockey (not sure) which Logan does not offer. Just a thought.

Logan has had swimmers before and I'm thinking they trained in Lancaster.

At one time Athens had a Hockey team

[playa_44]

Well said.

[1987chieftains]

Im just spitballing here, but if numbers is everything as everyone likes to slam Logan for having, and the other SEOAL schools are at a disadvantage to Logan because of their size, then howcum they dont dominate in basketball, baseball, and other sports like they do in football?

Also if numbers is the sole criteria for success, why doesnt anyone complain about Marietta having the same unfair advantage? Or could it be that Marietta went 1-9 in football this year and had their worst basketball season in memory? They have over 400 boys.

Dont get me wrong. Numbers helps, but it's what you do with those numbers that determines success IMO.

i know this is off topic and a thread exist already but, imo you have already said. #'s don't = wins. talant does. that why private school have that advantage over public. there #'s are mostly total atheles.
just for ex. say a private school has 300 boys enrolled 75% are there for sports, 25% are there for to learning. where as a public school that has 300 boys. only 50% at best are in sports.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Im just spitballing here, but if numbers is everything as everyone likes to slam Logan for having, and the other SEOAL schools are at a disadvantage to Logan because of their size, then howcum they dont dominate in basketball, baseball, and other sports like they do in football?

Also if numbers is the sole criteria for success, why doesnt anyone complain about Marietta having the same unfair advantage? Or could it be that Marietta went 1-9 in football this year and had their worst basketball season in memory? They have over 400 boys.

Dont get me wrong. Numbers helps, but it's what you do with those numbers that determines success IMO.

I personally did not say numbers were everything, and gave examples of different types of districts and how they are each affected by their individual situations. I did however and still stand by the fact that larger numbers do give an advantage to districts over smaller ones. It is of course up to each individual school to use the athletes they have to the best of their ability.

As 1987Chieftain said a private school with the same enrollment as a private school will have an undeniable advantage over a public school. He said that schools with 300 students would receive 75% participation at a private school which means they have 225 athletes, while he said a public school may only get 50% participation which equals out to 150 athletes. My question is that if we can except the fact that private schools have an advantage because they have more athletes to choose from, why do so many people out there find it hard grasp the concept that a public school with 300 athletes has an advantage over a school with 200 athletes? After all if we go by 1987 Chieftain’s estimation of 50% participation that would make it 150 athletes vs. 100.

I would also like everyone to remember that we already discussed different factors for while each school has participation problems, and although we said they were different I believe most of us felt they were equal.

When we consider why Logan doesn’t dominate in the other sports I again ask you to consider what sport takes the most quality athletes? You need 22 starters of football 9 for baseball, and 5 for basketball. It is much easier for the smaller schools to find the amount of quality starters they need for the other sports then it is to field the 22 they need for football. The fact they also have more quality subs do to the numbers of students they have and the fact that most years they will have more upper classmen also factor into this.

As for Marietta I do believe they have an advantage as well, but they still must take advantage of it, which they have not. As I have said there are other factors that have go into this other than just size, but size is the biggest factor. What I’m saying is even if you get great participation, and have a great tradition, great coaching and community support the larger school with the same participation, tradition, coaching and support will have the advantage over the smaller school because of their size. This is obvious when you compare Logan and Ironton. I would say percentage of participation and community support are about the same and I would give the edge to Ironton in coach and tradition, yet they still haven’t been able to beat Logan during their most recent stint in the SEOAL.

[wrestler87]

Im just spitballing here, but if numbers is everything as everyone likes to slam Logan for having, and the other SEOAL schools are at a disadvantage to Logan because of their size, then howcum they dont dominate in basketball, baseball, and other sports like they do in football?

Also if numbers is the sole criteria for success, why doesnt anyone complain about Marietta having the same unfair advantage? Or could it be that Marietta went 1-9 in football this year and had their worst basketball season in memory? They have over 400 boys.

Dont get me wrong. Numbers helps, but it's what you do with those numbers that determines success IMO.

i know this is off topic and a thread exist already but, imo you have already said. #'s don't = wins. talant does. that why private school have that advantage over public. there #'s are mostly total atheles.
just for ex. say a private school has 300 boys enrolled 75% are there for sports, 25% are there for to learning. where as a public school that has 300 boys. only 50% at best are in sports.

Also, if those private school athletes aren't actually living within the vicinity, the likeliness of them not only playing, but being STAR athletes increases. So, not only more athletes per, but better athletes per.

[wrestler87]

As for Marietta I do believe they have an advantage as well, but they still must take advantage of it, which they have not. As I have said there are other factors that have go into this other than just size, but size is the biggest factor. What I’m saying is even if you get great participation, and have a great tradition, great coaching and community support the larger school with the same participation, tradition, coaching and support will have the advantage over the smaller school because of their size. This is obvious when you compare Logan and Ironton. I would say percentage of participation and community support are about the same and I would give the edge to Ironton in coach and tradition, yet they still haven’t been able to beat Logan during their most recent stint in the SEOAL.
^^^Edit^^ Above is a quote. lol

While I am predominantly a Logan supporter (didn't graduate from there, but kids...) I see that going from D-2 to D-4 does make a numbers difference. Where all D-2's are concerned, NO they aren't created equal. 1 Division separated, not a big deal, but could make some difference. 2 Divisions-Yes, a difference, but still a good chance for competition. Depends on the school and it's circumstances.
Again, my humble opinion. Makes good sense.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Good post GAHS4ever

I agree that these talents need to be developed, and only having one middle school does affect those. Portsmouth used to field 2 teams, with the Grant Generals, and the McKinley Spartans. Without having 2 teams it has cut down on the amount of kids playing junior high basketball, and probably has affected us to some point.

I personally don't believe that only having one football team at the middle school level is a big deal. This is because of the numbers it takes, i.e. 22 starters, and many other backups that see lots of time. Plus at this level most of your skills are developed in practice, and most middle school coaches are concerned more about teaching skills and developing athletes for the high school, then they are concerned about wins and losses.

[LetsGoPSU]

I remember my days at McKinley,and looking back at the old, and I do mean old yearbook from 8th grade, we had 42 kids in 7th and 8th grade on our football team.Womdering how many we have at the junior high level today with just one school in Portsmouth

[wrestler87]

gahs4ever-Right on the money IMO.