Dropping Rivals

Ff3233
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Ff3233 »

Chaw wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:01 am
EasternDspy wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:15 pm
Green 50 wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:48 pm In a previous post you talked about how the fort was playing a much bigger school in Meadowbrook, yet Meadowbrook is 39%larger than the fort . The fort is 42%larger than Caldwell as they have 78 high school boys why should they want to play the game especially when there hurting getting kids to come out in the first place ?
Last year Waterford had more players then Fort Frye. I think Meadowbrook had 66 players. I think Fort currently has 32-34 players.
you continue to argue this point for quite some time now...and I continue to respond with the same truths...your argument about number of players is illogical...the difference being that the talent pool that you get those players from is almost 3 times as good as smaller schools...yes coaching makes them better....but natural talent and ability you can't teach...in other words....for every stud that a smaller school has...a bigger school has two or three...therefore they have better talent on a roster with the same amount of kids....by your logic...a D5 school should beat a D3 school because they have more players......FF is on the verge of becoming a D5 school...i see them becoming d5 in less than 5 years.....they play D6 and D7 teams for the most part so they usually win... because they have better talent and better coaching with that talent...Trimble has been the same way with D6.... they finally moved up... if you really look at the schools that are close to advancing into a bigger school division... they are usually the successful programs year in and year out....
Not sure why you think ff will be d5, unless you think players will be transferring in. Not alot of jobs in the area


EasternDspy
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy »

Raider6309 wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:15 pm
efarns wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:52 pm Do Vinton County and Wellston really want to drive to Beverly for a Monday night girls basketball game? How many people are going to drive from Lower Salem to watch a basketball game at Alexander?

If they are going to shake up a league with bigger schools, it should be The MVL. Morgan, Crooksville, Philo, John Glenn, West Muskingum, New Lex are easier to get to. Also, it gets them media in Zanesville
Fort Frye can’t be picky. They are in BFE with pretty bad facilities. The TVC is in the biggest market of Ohio University.

Bad facilities? They got a brand new floor in the gym one of the best baseball fields in Ohio, Great weight room only think they isn’t up to par is the football field it’s self


EasternDspy
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy »

Fort Frye girls are D4 in all sports and Fort is already one of the smallest D6 football teams. If anything they could drop to 7 in the next 5-10 years.


enigmaax
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by enigmaax »

EasternDspy wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:14 pm
Bad facilities? They got a brand new floor in the gym one of the best baseball fields in Ohio, Great weight room only think they isn’t up to par is the football field it’s self
That gym is awful, though.


EasternDspy
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy »

enigmaax wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:29 pm
EasternDspy wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:14 pm
Bad facilities? They got a brand new floor in the gym one of the best baseball fields in Ohio, Great weight room only think they isn’t up to par is the football field it’s self
That gym is awful, though.
I think it’s awesome about to get AC


Green 50
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Green 50 »

EasternDspy wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:15 pm Fort Frye girls are D4 in all sports and Fort is already one of the smallest D6 football teams. If anything they could drop to 7 in the next 5-10 years.
With cb numbers looks like fort is at 145. Highest in div 6 is greenview at157 and Fayetteville 117 the lowest . Fort is about 27 most in div 6


Ff3233
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Ff3233 »

EasternDspy wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 pm
enigmaax wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:29 pm
EasternDspy wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:14 pm
Bad facilities? They got a brand new floor in the gym one of the best baseball fields in Ohio, Great weight room only think they isn’t up to par is the football field it’s self
That gym is awful, though.
I think it’s awesome about to get AC
Gym has ac


PVCGuru
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by PVCGuru »

Ff3233 wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:36 pm
Chaw wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:01 am
EasternDspy wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:15 pm

Last year Waterford had more players then Fort Frye. I think Meadowbrook had 66 players. I think Fort currently has 32-34 players.
you continue to argue this point for quite some time now...and I continue to respond with the same truths...your argument about number of players is illogical...the difference being that the talent pool that you get those players from is almost 3 times as good as smaller schools...yes coaching makes them better....but natural talent and ability you can't teach...in other words....for every stud that a smaller school has...a bigger school has two or three...therefore they have better talent on a roster with the same amount of kids....by your logic...a D5 school should beat a D3 school because they have more players......FF is on the verge of becoming a D5 school...i see them becoming d5 in less than 5 years.....they play D6 and D7 teams for the most part so they usually win... because they have better talent and better coaching with that talent...Trimble has been the same way with D6.... they finally moved up... if you really look at the schools that are close to advancing into a bigger school division... they are usually the successful programs year in and year out....
Not sure why you think ff will be d5, unless you think players will be transferring in. Not alot of jobs in the area
Because you will continue to get open enrollment from Warren. Which has helped you in multiple sports.


Ff3233
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Ff3233 »

PVCGuru wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:18 am
Ff3233 wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:36 pm
Chaw wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:01 am

you continue to argue this point for quite some time now...and I continue to respond with the same truths...your argument about number of players is illogical...the difference being that the talent pool that you get those players from is almost 3 times as good as smaller schools...yes coaching makes them better....but natural talent and ability you can't teach...in other words....for every stud that a smaller school has...a bigger school has two or three...therefore they have better talent on a roster with the same amount of kids....by your logic...a D5 school should beat a D3 school because they have more players......FF is on the verge of becoming a D5 school...i see them becoming d5 in less than 5 years.....they play D6 and D7 teams for the most part so they usually win... because they have better talent and better coaching with that talent...Trimble has been the same way with D6.... they finally moved up... if you really look at the schools that are close to advancing into a bigger school division... they are usually the successful programs year in and year out....
Not sure why you think ff will be d5, unless you think players will be transferring in. Not alot of jobs in the area
Because you will continue to get open enrollment from Warren. Which has helped you in multiple sports.
We have one athlete that has open enrolled. The rest are from our district. Try again


enigmaax
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by enigmaax »


Because you will continue to get open enrollment from Warren. Which has helped you in multiple sports.
I may have missed a bunch of these because I can only think of two kids from Warren who went to Fort Frye and in both cases their fathers worked or coached at Fort Frye. Can you tell me who I am forgetting?


Ff3233
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Ff3233 »

enigmaax wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:48 am

Because you will continue to get open enrollment from Warren. Which has helped you in multiple sports.
I may have missed a bunch of these because I can only think of two kids from Warren who went to Fort Frye and in both cases their fathers worked or coached at Fort Frye. Can you tell me who I am forgetting?
Not forgetting anyone. We have one coach whose son transferred in from warren this year as a sophomore. No idea who else there is


Mister Bee
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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Mister Bee »

EasternDspy wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:01 pm Do you think you should drop a rival just because the rival is good?
Just because they are good? No. However, you do need to be some what competitive.

Do you drop a rival based on school size? No. However, you do need to be some what competitive.

I say this because about 10 years ago Belpre dropped Warren in football because the thought was Warren was to big, enrollment size, for Belpre to be competitive any more. This has led to Belpre and Warren not competing in other sports. Frankly, they pretty much own us in most boys sports we play them.

Over the years, any series with any team, rival or not, will see one team dominate the other for a time and then the series swings back to the other side. Belpre vs Warren in football stand at Belpre leading the over all series 25-24-1.The last 10 years the series was played Belpre went 4-6. Warren won the last 6 games with only the last 2 games were they had dominate wins of 56-0 and 42-12. Their previous 3 wins were 27-6, 14-3 and 17-10.

Who you have as players and coaches play the biggest role vs school size in my opinion. Usually, the more stable program, one that isn't changing coaches every year or couple of years, will win the most games, rivals or not.
Last edited by Mister Bee on Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Mister Bee »

Let me add one more thing.

I read the first post and pretty much skipped the other comments to the 3rd page. I did read the above posts on this page. It was pretty much what I expected.

I will say this. Fort Fyre, except for the football field, has very above average facilities for a school it's size. I like their gym. I wish Belpre's gym had sitting on both sides as what the original blue prints called for.

In closing, the TVC needs to add Fort Frye (Hocking) and Warren (Ohio). Even number of teams works sooo much better for scheduling. Find a 3rd team and split into 3 divisions as I have been suggesting for the past 10 years.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by trojandave »

Portsmouth dropping Wheelersburg still burns me. A big money game, a traditional rival since the early 70's, and a school that is DV just like Portsmouth HS.......and only 8 miles separate the two.

To give an example of why you should keep playing a rival, in 1965, Portsmouth lost at home to Middletown 98-14. Two years later, the Trojans beat the Middies 36-20 at Spartan Stadium. Did anyone back then think that the Trojans just 2 years later could beat the Middies after suffering such an embarrasing defeat on their home field?

Portsmouth had a lopsided losing record all time in the Greater Ohio League, but remained a member of the GOL for virtually 30 years until its eventual demise in the mid 70's. PHS didn't run away from tough competition, even though they were on the short end of the scoreboard more often than not.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by FANOSPORTS »

trojandave wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:25 pm Portsmouth dropping Wheelersburg still burns me. A big money game, a traditional rival since the early 70's, and a school that is DV just like Portsmouth HS.......and only 8 miles separate the two.

To give an example of why you should keep playing a rival, in 1965, Portsmouth lost at home to Middletown 98-14. Two years later, the Trojans beat the Middies 36-20 at Spartan Stadium. Did anyone back then think that the Trojans just 2 years later could beat the Middies after suffering such an embarrasing defeat on their home field?

Portsmouth had a lopsided losing record all time in the Greater Ohio League, but remained a member of the GOL for virtually 30 years until its eventual demise in the mid 70's. PHS didn't run away from tough competition, even though they were on the short end of the scoreboard more often than not.
..... and people and schools nowadays with better fuel efficient & comfortable vehicles, buses and highways want to complain about travel times !!!!! The old GOL had what, 7 teams at different times with Portsmouth, Middletown, Hamilton, Lima, Springfield, Chillicothe and Mansfield....and yes, better competition. :o


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by efarns »

The teams dropping Fort Frye now were beating them less than 5 years ago. It isn't like Caldwell is beating anyone else, either. Administration can project enrollment over the next decade, so maybe they just know there is going to be a continued dropoff?

I like to poke Waterford on here a little bit, but I agree with the poster who said that chasing Fort Frye (and later on, Afrocentric) has made them better.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by portsmouth_98 »

As far as Portsmouth's top rival Ironton we have played them continuously for around 100 years as others have came and went on the schedule. We stopped playing Chillicothe who is out 2nd most played opponents when we both left the SEOAL and I don't know when that one will continue given these two towns and schools are in a much different place than they have been historically. After Chillicothe we go to Ashland,Ky and Huntington, WV. These are towns that aren't growing quite as fast as Chillicothe but they are in states that limit schools per county much more than Ohio, Ashland is a team we could probably compete with most of the time, Huntington on the other hand is a much bigger school and I see little incentive for us to play each other. The next two are Middletown and Springfield who probably want less to do with us than we do them. Then we come to the interesting one, Wheelersburg. This is probably the most frustrating as they are closer and smaller than all the other schools listed but actually own a much tighter grip on the series and over the last 10 games than any other team listed so far. The last 5 years we played, they were 5-0 with the average score being 43.4 to 8. We also won 16 games during those 5 years so we weren't giving them any harbin points or game prep and they were chalking us up for a guaranteed loss every year. If you take it back 10 years they won 9 out of 10 with an average of 39.5 to 13 so we still weren't competitive, as a matter of fact if you back 15 years they are 13-2 and have outscored us 519-222 in that time span. It kills me that we couldn't compete with them but it was an inarguable fact from any logical metric, it was an ugly to watch game that helped neither program make the playoffs or improve their team. The only positive for either side would be Wheelersburgs fans traveling well to get PHS a nice gate and possibly some sort of satisfaction to people who enjoy seeing Portsmouth losing 68-14.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by trojandave »

portsmouth98: You know how I feel about the Wheelersburg series......you and I have discussed this many times. We should play them every year regardless of the metrics that you presented. It's our job to get better, not run away from a school that is in our division. Don't you think that the kids who play would like to play Wheelersburg? I would guess the answer would be an overwhelming "yes". Shouldn't that be a factor as to whether we play them or not?

Ironton dominated us under Bob Lutz for the better part of 35 years, with the Trojans only winning about 7-8 times, several of which were in Lutz's final years. From the early 70's to the mid 90's, wins were far and few between, with the 1984 game being the most notable (that win helped Portsmouth in the playoffs for the first time). Many of those games were lopsided and over by halftime......but we still played them every year back then and still play them today, and always should play Ironton. Why should Wheelersburg be any different? As you posted, the Trojans are 2-13 in the last 15 seasons vs. the Pirates. Double that total and it's close to the same winning pct. as the Ironton series under Lutz.

What are we going to do now? Pick and choose when we play Wheelersburg? That's not the definition of a true rivalry.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by 14U »

EasternDspy wrote: Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:01 pm Do you think you should drop a rival just because the rival is good?
You talking about Portsmouth vs wheelersburg? Because you still play west and Ironton. I believe it was said they couldn’t compete with Pirates year in and year out. It was Portsmouth AD that wanted out? I don’t know just what I read on here back when the game was canceled. As far as what I think, play it. Can’t get better not playing tougher teams. For years Portsmouth didn’t care who was on schedule. But now they schedule all beatable teams for non conference games. I see a lot of rivals that one team wins 8-9 in a row before winning one. It’s a rival and gets everybody gets pumped up for the game. Also it brings a great gate, split pot, concession etc.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by trojandave »

I had a guy from Newark tell me a couple of years ago that Newark beat Zanesville 23 times in a row in basketball, yet the two teams continued to play each other, with Zanesville being the smaller school by a considerable margin. They may have been in the old Central Ohio League at the time, but Newark is now in the Ohio Capital Conference, while Zanesville is not. They still play each other today.

14U is correct, there are a number of rivalries where one school will dominate for a while, but the tide eventually shifts. Didn't Valley go almost 50 years without beating Wheelersburg, then they beat the Pirates 3 straight years around 2014-2015? I know it's conference play, but to go almost 50 years without winning is a lot longer than the last time the Trojans beat Wheelersburg.


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