2018 Season Stats

SEOhio
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio »

Fonzie wrote: Sun May 13, 2018 11:57 pm
ColdHardTruth wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 2:57 pm
Fonzie wrote: Thu May 10, 2018 1:59 pm Postseason awards are absolutely useless. They translate into nothing 99.9% of the time. If a kid is worrying about stats to earn an INDIVIDUAL award, then they are playing for the wrong reasons. If a parent is bent out of shape over stats and INDIVIDUAL awards, then you need to take a step back and remember it is a team sport. The only STAT that means anything, is the Win and Loss column on the stat sheet for the team.

No I am not a coach, no I am not a parent. Once upon of time I won several of these postseason awards and can tell you first hand, they do not help you later in life. You want to go play college ball, they look at stats, and they will look at what you do in person. They will look to see if you were on successful teams and if you come from a winning culture.

In all honesty, in today's society of giving everyone a dang trophy, I can not believe they even allow individual awards. Sadly, I don't blame the kids, I blame the idiotic parents who are trying to relive their glory years through their kids.
Very well said. But let me ask you this, and before that troll jumps into my conversation again. Understand I'm asking as your opinion as a former player.

Did you not accept the award and enjoy the recognition às a teenager player? No kid should ever play just for a reward and it means nothing, your correct. But, so does Prom and people still dump $$$$$ into it every year.
Now that you're an adult you're mature enough to understand the award. But as a player was it something you looked forward to?

In all honesty. no. It didn't seem like that big of a deal to me then either. I was fortunate to have parents that instilled in me that a TEAM is far more important than an individual. Like I said, wins and losses are the only stat that mattered. I viewed it that way then, and I still do. I believe a lot of it boils down to how you were raised. If little Billy's parents teach that you must receive an individual award for your contributions to a team sport are the only way to prove your worth, then yeah, maybe that teenage kid might need the recognition.
I completely agree with you but they are going to do what they want anyhow. Coaches are so wrapped up on having to make a player or players look good with an individual award. He admitted that the player needed recognition as a teenager and wasn't mature enough to understand. Players should play for a win and that is what they should be looking forward to and not an individual award to say to the team... look at me. Like I said in the previous post, the coach for the college team I was talking to actually said it hurts their chances in college. College teams don't want individual players but a player who stands out for a team effort. I guess people have to learn the hard way but it will only hurt their player.


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SEOhio
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio »

hawkeyepierce wrote: Mon May 14, 2018 9:36 am
SEOhio wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 2:10 pm
hawkeyepierce wrote: Wed May 09, 2018 12:37 pm

Yes. That is correct, the catcher is credited with the putout, because he or she has completed the out. If, the catcher drops the third strike, and throws the batter out at first, the catcher is credited with an assist and the first baseman is credited with the putout. Strikeouts are a separate category and whether the strikeout is completed by the catcher or the first baseman, or neither, the batter is safe, the pitcher is still credited with the strikeout.
Why are HS teams keeping track of putouts anyhow other than how the out occurs. It just seems really stupid to argue about who gets the putout on a strike out in HS. Does the catcher get scored an error when it is a passed ball or when they drop the third strike and don't get the out at first? I know there are gold glove awards in MLB that accounts for but these are kids without an official scorekeeper determining if a bad hop is an error or just a good effort. Stats are definitely manipulated when coaches or parents keeping the book determines these types of things.
Well, we are using GameChanger. It automatically keeps those minutia stats for us. However, to answer your questions, no, a catcher doesn't record an error during a passed ball. The passed ball stat is a separate stat, it has it own category as it relates to catching as a whole. The same as an wild pitch stat, it doesn't fall on the pitcher as an error but rather a wild pitch, its own pitching category. Again, a dropped third strike only occurs during an wild pitch or an passed ball, of course, at younger levels a kid may just drop the ball, but that should be recorded as a passed ball. No error is given in either of these cases.

An error is, in the judgement of the official scorer, when a fielder misplays a batted ball that allows the batter to move up one or more bases.

A dropped third strike, passed ball, or wild pitch is considered a battery error.
Here is a list of when an error isn't charged that might be an FYI for some people:

NO ERROR IS CHARGED
SECTION 22. No error is charged to a fielder in the following situations:
a. When a ball is misplayed due to being lost in the sun or lights, blown by the wind, or if
the fielder slips and falls—even if contact is made with the ball.
b. When there is a mental mistake. Throwing to the wrong base is considered a mental mistake.
c. When a catcher attempts a pick-off unless the runner advances an additional base.
d. When a runner returns safely to her original base on a rundown.
e. When a runner beats a wild throw or dropped catch (unless an additional base is
gained). This also pertains to the second or third out of a double or triple play.
Note—A dropped ball by the receiver is an error if the runner would have been out.
f. When a ball is hit with such force, so slowly or with erratic spin that it would require
more than ordinary effort to play the ball.
g. When a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play.
h. When a fielder drops a ball after running a considerable distance or if she fails in her
attempt to catch the ball while running at a high rate of speed.
i. When a fielder drops a line drive after moving more than a few steps to catch the ball.
j. As a result of an illegal pitch, wild pitch, passed ball or hit batter, even if more than one
base is gained from the initial misplay.
k. When a runner advances on a dropped third strike. In such a case, a wild pitch or passed
ball shall be charged; however, if an accurate throw or proper catch would have resulted
in an out, an error shall be charged to the appropriate player.
l. When a pitcher mishandles a sharply batted ball. Wild throws and the mishandling of
routine ground balls and bunts are reason for charging the pitcher with an error.


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SEOhio
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio »

Also, I know we were talking about fielding percentages and catchers, here is a whole list of how to score a putout for those who keep track of those in HS.

PUTOUT
SECTION 19. a. Credit a putout to a fielder who catches a fly ball or line drive, tags out a
runner or tags the base to force out the runner.
b. Credit a putout to the catcher in the following instances:
1. A legally caught third strike.
2. The batter is called out for an illegally batted ball.
3. A batter is out on a third strike foul bunt.
4. A batter is out for being touched by her own fair batted ball while one or both feet
are completely out of the batter’s box or for stepping on home plate.
5. A batter is out for intentionally interfering with her own foul batted ball.
6. A batter interferes with the catcher.
7. A batter is out for batting out of order.
8. A batter-runner fails to touch first base after a base on balls.
9. A catcher steps on the plate with the ball in her possession with the bases loaded.
This includes a dropped third strike.
10. A runner is out for not advancing legally to home plate for the game-winning run.
11. A runner fails to touch home plate and makes no attempt to return. The catcher
properly appeals, and the runner is called out.


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SEOhio
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio »

ERROR
SECTION 21. a. An error is charged against any fielder for each misplay (i.e., fielding, wild
throws, missed catches on good throws) that prolongs the life of a batter (causes one or
pitches to be thrown) or a runner or permits a runner to advance. This includes a
dropped foul ball unless it was allowed to drop intentionally to prevent a runner from
advancing.
b. A single error is charged even if more than one base is gained by a runner as a result of
the play.
c. An error shall be charged against any fielder when she catches a thrown ball or fields a
ground ball in time to put out any runner on a force play and fails to tag the base or the
runner, including a batter-runner on a play at first base.
d. An error shall be charged against any fielder whose throw takes an unnatural bounce,
touches a base or the pitcher’s plate, or touches a runner, a fielder or an umpire; thereby,
permitting any runner to advance. Apply this rule even when it appears to be an
injustice to a fielder whose throw was accurate. The scorer must account for every base
advanced by a runner.
e. If a throw is made to a base and more than one fielder could have received the throw
but neither did, an error is charged to the fielder who should have received the throw.
f. An error is charged to a fielder (including the catcher) committing obstruction when an
additional base is gained as a result of the obstruction.
g. An error is charged to a defensive player who collides with a fielder making the initial
catch on a fly ball that is dropped.


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ManitouDan2
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by ManitouDan2 »

Few names of post season stuff got leaked out last night.. On page 1 of this thread I told you some of you are in for a rude awakening . It looks like they drew names out of a hat for some stuff . And I've got zero connection to anyone or any team . But again some girls who clearly , head and shoulders , clearly had better seasons than the award winners got left out . I know it cant be perfect , but it also shouldn't be horribly screwed up . Will make for good message board stuff for sure .


SoftballGirl
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SoftballGirl »

Can’t wait. Need some good reading material.


SoftballGirl
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SoftballGirl »

When will awards be released?


ManitouDan2
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by ManitouDan2 »

With the boys being released today I'd think tomorrow .


Browns30
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by Browns30 »

ManitouDan2 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 7:36 am Few names of post season stuff got leaked out last night.. On page 1 of this thread I told you some of you are in for a rude awakening . It looks like they drew names out of a hat for some stuff . And I've got zero connection to anyone or any team . But again some girls who clearly , head and shoulders , clearly had better seasons than the award winners got left out . I know it cant be perfect , but it also shouldn't be horribly screwed up . Will make for good message board stuff for sure .
For sure!! Do some coaches not even pay attention to who they are voting for? I mean, what do they base it on if not stats?


ManitouDan2
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by ManitouDan2 »

I said it once I'll say it again " you vote for mine I'll vote for your's" And there are fine , fine people coaching some of these teams but as a group I think they might want to consider a public vote so the " deal cutters " can be exposed . And hold the vote when all coaches can be present and can argue/support their players .
and I know some say " cant you just happy for those that got it " ? Well think about the kid whose hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded . There will be obvious " you have to joking" type selections where stats and wins/losses were evidently thrown out the window . ( rant over )


Browns30
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by Browns30 »

ManitouDan2 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 1:54 pm I said it once I'll say it again " you vote for mine I'll vote for your's" And there are fine , fine people coaching some of these teams but as a group I think they might want to consider a public vote so the " deal cutters " can be exposed . And hold the vote when all coaches can be present and can argue/support their players .
and I know some say " cant you just happy for those that got it " ? Well think about the kid whose hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded . There will be obvious " you have to joking" type selections where stats and wins/losses were evidently thrown out the window . ( rant over )
I agree. What are we saying to these kids whose "hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded"? Work your butt off or don't because it doesnt matter anyways?


SoftballGirl
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SoftballGirl »

Browns30 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 2:34 pm
ManitouDan2 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 1:54 pm I said it once I'll say it again " you vote for mine I'll vote for your's" And there are fine , fine people coaching some of these teams but as a group I think they might want to consider a public vote so the " deal cutters " can be exposed . And hold the vote when all coaches can be present and can argue/support their players .
and I know some say " cant you just happy for those that got it " ? Well think about the kid whose hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded . There will be obvious " you have to joking" type selections where stats and wins/losses were evidently thrown out the window . ( rant over )
I agree. What are we saying to these kids whose "hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded"? Work your butt off or don't because it doesnt matter anyways?
Trust me I understand your frustration but I don’t believe a girl is working her butt off to get a conference or district award. If a kid quits working hard because they didn’t receive a conference or district award then they are in it for the wrong reasons.


Browns30
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by Browns30 »

SoftballGirl wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 2:48 pm
Browns30 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 2:34 pm
ManitouDan2 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 1:54 pm I said it once I'll say it again " you vote for mine I'll vote for your's" And there are fine , fine people coaching some of these teams but as a group I think they might want to consider a public vote so the " deal cutters " can be exposed . And hold the vote when all coaches can be present and can argue/support their players .
and I know some say " cant you just happy for those that got it " ? Well think about the kid whose hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded . There will be obvious " you have to joking" type selections where stats and wins/losses were evidently thrown out the window . ( rant over )
I agree. What are we saying to these kids whose "hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded"? Work your butt off or don't because it doesnt matter anyways?
Trust me I understand your frustration but I don’t believe a girl is working her butt off to get a conference or district award. If a kid quits working hard because they didn’t receive a conference or district award then they are in it for the wrong reasons.

Oh I agree 100%!!! I feel like a lot of players AND coaches get too carried away with individual awards or accomplishments that they forget about TEAMWORK!


SEOhio
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio »

Browns30 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 1:23 pm
ManitouDan2 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 7:36 am Few names of post season stuff got leaked out last night.. On page 1 of this thread I told you some of you are in for a rude awakening . It looks like they drew names out of a hat for some stuff . And I've got zero connection to anyone or any team . But again some girls who clearly , head and shoulders , clearly had better seasons than the award winners got left out . I know it cant be perfect , but it also shouldn't be horribly screwed up . Will make for good message board stuff for sure .
For sure!! Do some coaches not even pay attention to who they are voting for? I mean, what do they base it on if not stats?
Yeah, they pay attention to who they are voting for because they have "water cooler" talk and talk people into voting for certain people for a variety of reasons either personal or by name. It is always interesting seeing who gets the awards and their connections to the school or even one of the coaches on staff. I realize everyone wants their child to be recognized and think they are one of the best when they really aren't. Like I was told a week or so by the college softball coach, they can tell by watching themself if they are worthy of being recruited. I am sure the parents or coaches will come up with excuses of why they are giving the awards unfairly, but it will all come to an end when they are a senior and walking across at graduation with no athletic scholarship in hand. That is where the disappointment will be found and that is truly unfair for that kid because it could have been stopped when they were a freshman, sophomore, or junior and receiving all-conference awards when they didn't deserve it. At least they have the newspaper clipping so they can relive the glory years later in life like their parents are doing now.


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SEOhio
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SEOhio »

Browns30 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 2:53 pm
SoftballGirl wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 2:48 pm
Browns30 wrote: Thu May 24, 2018 2:34 pm

I agree. What are we saying to these kids whose "hard work , dedication , and more importantly on the field performance doesnt get rewarded"? Work your butt off or don't because it doesnt matter anyways?
Trust me I understand your frustration but I don’t believe a girl is working her butt off to get a conference or district award. If a kid quits working hard because they didn’t receive a conference or district award then they are in it for the wrong reasons.

Oh I agree 100%!!! I feel like a lot of players AND coaches get too carried away with individual awards or accomplishments that they forget about TEAMWORK!
These individual awards are like participation trophies and they find ways to give one to everyone. Some just get larger ones than others based on so-called information from games likes stats that are being judged by a parent who is keeping the book or even a coach who may have a child on the team along showing favoritism for their kid's friends. Good programs aim for the ultimate goal of the W in the book and playing the best at every position without the I in the TEAM.


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Browns30
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by Browns30 »

"Good programs aim for the ultimate goal of the W in the book and playing the best at every position without the I in the TEAM."

YES!!!!!


KSW
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by KSW »

My daughter's school has multiple coaches, most are volunteers. None have a daughter on the team. One of the coaches keeps the stats all year long. No stats are released until the team is out of the tourney or the spring banquet, which ever comes last. But, like anything else some things are subjective.


ColdHardTruth
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by ColdHardTruth »

The nature of this thread is really confusing. For a couple of you who have mentioned not caring about awards and how much they don't matter it seems like you're all over this thread and caring about who is getting what awards.

Anyway, on to the discussion. I'm positive the water cooler talks happen. I'm also positive coaches exaggerate stats and don't report them the proper way. I was under the impression all stats were somehow verified. I saw one coach claim a girl was hitting .700 in another thread. That's funny cause she went 1-7 in the games i watched her. She must have been lights out every other game.
But, from what ive seen who the heck are we to decide who is deserving. I've only watched a handful of non soc games. Some of you probably haven't watched any SOC games. So who are we to say the best players are or are we just going off of names and what program they play for.
I'm positive the coaches system is flawed. But because it is voted on by coaches I'm also positive coaches will vote for kids they have seen play and know are legit instead of just word of mouth.


captainmorgan_
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by captainmorgan_ »

I don't find it a bit confusing. We all know there are kids who are deserving that get bumped by a coaches kid, their favorite player or someone with some type of connection to the school. I coached years ago, I have been to the meetings, its not always coaches voting for who they have seen or believe are the best. Most of it is, vote for mine and ill vote for yours. And just because some mention not caring about awards, it still doesn't make it right that the wrong person gets it, does it? weather they care or not?


SoftballGirl
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Re: 2018 Season Stats

Post by SoftballGirl »

Limiting spots by team eliminates deserving players also. With the number of very good players on some teams some players will be left off while other others will receive an award who probably wouldn’t be able to start on those teams.

Might get reamed for that statement but it’s the truth.


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