Enrollment & Competitive Balance #'s for Elite 8/Final 4 Teams

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Enrollment & Competitive Balance #'s for Elite 8/Final 4 Teams

Post by Tri-StateYouthSports » Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:35 pm

So I did this for the Girl's Final 4 teams. Thought I would expand it to the Elite 8 for the Boys.

An interesting look at enrollment #'s for the Elite 8 teams for each division.

EMIS = Base Enrollement # (Grade 9-11)
CB = Competitive Balance Addition

I'm under the assumption that everyone understands Competitive Balance. If you don't, ask and I'll try to give a brief explanation.

* I updated the table after the Elite 8 games. The 4 teams that advanced to the Semi-Finals of each Division are at the top.

Image
Below I've sorted (largest to smallest) the entire D-I & D-III divisions by Collective Balance #'s and listed the top 16. Anyone see a correlation?
  • D-I
    Image

    D-III
    Image
Last edited by Tri-StateYouthSports on Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:25 pm, edited 5 times in total.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by yabbadabbadoo » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:08 pm

Isn’t every boy on Harvest Prep from out of the area?

Are any of their kids homegrown?



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by mhs95_06 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:24 pm

Tri-StateYouthSports wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:35 pm
So I did this for the Girl's Final 4 teams. Thought I would expand it to the Elite 8 for the Boys.

An interesting look at enrollment #'s for the Elite 8 teams for each division.

EMIS = Base Enrollement # (Grade 9-11)
CB = Competitive Balance Addition

I'm under the assumption that everyone understands Competitive Balance. If you don't, ask and I'll try to give a brief explanation.

Image
How is Hiland D4 if their total is 130, two above the D4 max?



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by FANOSPORTS » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:50 pm

The problem's still remain even with CB numbers being increased with Catholic schools to draw them closer to the public's. The Parochial or Christian schools (i.e Harvest Prep, etc) are even worse as their CB numbers will be higher than enrollment numbers but if you keep enrollment #'s low, who cares if your CB #'s are higher if you don't go over the Max, you don't have to move up. Nearly 70% of the schools listed in the chart above are in or within 15 miles of a metro area and of the whole total 30% are Catholic or Parochial. Also, in metro city school districts they have "lottery" systems to get into certain schools (ie , Africentric) along with voucher programs for low income and disadvantaged kids to apply for and use if they don't want to attend a public school and would rather go to another route (ie, Catholic, parochial). The key is to get the kids in before high school and you're golden. Check out the link below for K-12 Africentric if you want to " read between the lines " on what they are proposing because " technically" it's part of Columbus Public schools but this is just another work around to expand their already popular school (and don't let the Early College part fool you) until they get the state on board :

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... jxatGb1n5G


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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by sykesb2 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 am

Pretty simple..Just have one division for all private and catholic schools. The recruiting process would be an interesting thing to watch between those teams if they ever go to that



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Chieftain2009 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:59 am

sykesb2 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:42 am
Pretty simple..Just have one division for all private and catholic schools. The recruiting process would be an interesting thing to watch between those teams if they ever go to that
Except that's not simple at all. There are private schools that vastly vary in size, just like public schools.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by 93Bulldog » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:55 am

50:1 odds that the school with the least amt boys of the 8 remaining in each division all win state championships.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by 93Bulldog » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:33 am

For those who think the mighty mac teams recruit because of their high success.

Coldwater ... CB = 0



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by JTEK » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:37 am

93Bulldog wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:33 am
For those who think the mighty mac teams recruit because of their high success.

Coldwater ... CB = 0
Doesn’t mean they don’t have move ins



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Tri-StateYouthSports » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:38 am

mhs95_06 wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:24 pm
How is Hiland D4 if their total is 130, two above the D4 max?
That was my error. I had Hiland with a CB of 6. Should have been a 3. I've corrected it.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Tri-StateYouthSports » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:54 am

FYI - CB only applies to students currently residing outside of the school district. (for public schools)

+1 - If living outside the district and have attended the school continuously since the 7th grade.
+5 - If living outside the district and have not attended continuously since the 7th grade.

Note: For non-public schools, it does not matter where the student and his/her parents currently reside.
Only has the student maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of education (ie feeder school) since the start of 7th grade? If no, then +5.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by CGFAN#1 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:30 am

Tri-StateYouthSports wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:54 am
FYI - CB only applies to students currently residing outside of the school district. (for public schools)

+1 - If living outside the district and have attended the school continuously since the 7th grade.
+5 - If living outside the district and have not attended continuously since the 7th grade.

Note: For non-public schools, it does not matter where the student and his/her parents currently reside.
Only has the student maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of education (ie feeder school) since the start of 7th grade? If no, then +5.
I believe I am correct in stating that CB #'s don't wholly imply sports is the reason they are there. For example if someone leaves a neighboring school due to bullying concerns or specific programs like elite concert bands or drama clubs those numbers count in CB and they may never play sports. Is this not correct?



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Tri-StateYouthSports » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:04 am

CGFAN#1 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:30 am
Tri-StateYouthSports wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:54 am
FYI - CB only applies to students currently residing outside of the school district. (for public schools)

+1 - If living outside the district and have attended the school continuously since the 7th grade.
+5 - If living outside the district and have not attended continuously since the 7th grade.

Note: For non-public schools, it does not matter where the student and his/her parents currently reside.
Only has the student maintained continuous enrollment in the same system of education (ie feeder school) since the start of 7th grade? If no, then +5.
I believe I am correct in stating that CB #'s don't wholly imply sports is the reason they are there. For example if someone leaves a neighboring school due to bullying concerns or specific programs like elite concert bands or drama clubs those numbers count in CB and they may never play sports. Is this not correct?
No. CB is sport specific based on that sports previous years roster.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by trojandave » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:51 am

Tri-StateYouthSports: I've seen a number of posts over time on this site about the difference between open enrollment and competitive balance. Are they related in terms of affecting a school's enrollment, and does one have the advantage over the other? Are "move-ins/transfers" categorized as open enrollment or competitive balance? Can they be considered both?

In the SE district, Wheelersburg and New Boston have some of the highest CB numbers. Are these adjusted CB numbers due to open enrollment, or are the numbers strictly CB numbers? I've seen posts that have stated that public schools have open enrollment which makes CB numbers not as much as an advantage for private schools as once thought.

Could you please explain, or someone explain, these two issues when it comes to a competitive advantage for a particular school?



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by bbjunky81 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:59 am

trojandave wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:51 am
Tri-StateYouthSports: I've seen a number of posts over time on this site about the difference between open enrollment and competitive balance. Are they related in terms of affecting a school's enrollment, and does one have the advantage over the other? Are "move-ins/transfers" categorized as open enrollment or competitive balance? Can they be considered both?

In the SE district, Wheelersburg and New Boston have some of the highest CB numbers. Are these adjusted CB numbers due to open enrollment, or are the numbers strictly CB numbers? I've seen posts that have stated that public schools have open enrollment which makes CB numbers not as much as an advantage for private schools as once thought.

Could you please explain, or someone explain, these two issues when it comes to a competitive advantage for a particular school?
Strictly CB numbers.


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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by LucasDavenport » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:10 pm

CB numbers only apply or pertain to the members of the team.

If someone moves into a school district and doesn’t play basketball then they are not counted in CB number.


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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Tri-StateYouthSports » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:57 pm

trojandave wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:51 am
Tri-StateYouthSports: I've seen a number of posts over time on this site about the difference between open enrollment and competitive balance. Are they related in terms of affecting a school's enrollment, and does one have the advantage over the other? Are "move-ins/transfers" categorized as open enrollment or competitive balance? Can they be considered both?

In the SE district, Wheelersburg and New Boston have some of the highest CB numbers. Are these adjusted CB numbers due to open enrollment, or are the numbers strictly CB numbers? I've seen posts that have stated that public schools have open enrollment which makes CB numbers not as much as an advantage for private schools as once thought.

Could you please explain, or someone explain, these two issues when it comes to a competitive advantage for a particular school?
Open enrollment is just the policy of the school district. Meaning they allow a student who lives outside of the district to attend their school.

Competitive balance applies to the roster of each specific sport and has different implications base on if it is a public or non-public school. Which in the end only affects the enrollment # translating to the division assignment.

Transfer rules affect the athlete's eligibility. Being ineligible for the second 1/2 of the season.

Let me try an example with a few scenerios.
  • (public school) - Student lives in school district A, attends school A through 8th grade. The student doesn't relocate but decides to attend school B beginning in 9th grade. For all sports which he is on the roster while that student is at school B, he will be a Tier 2 on CB. Meaning they will be a CB addition of (Football = 2;Volleyball, Basketball, Baseball, & Softball = 5; Soccer = 6).

    Same scenario as above but the student does relocate to the new school district. They would not be a CB addition.

    Same scenario as above but the student decided to attend school B after the 6th grade instead of after 8th grade. They would be a Tier 1 on CB. CB addition of +1.

    For non-public schools, where they currently reside has no bearing on their CB status. Only their history within that school system. If they have not had continuous enrollment in that school system since the start of 7th grade then they are a Tier 2 on CB. Meaning they will be a CB addition of (Football = 2;Volleyball, Basketball, Baseball, & Softball = 5; Soccer = 6).
As far as move-ins, if it is a legitimate change of residence to within the school district or they meet 1 of the 11 transfer exceptions then there are no eligibility or CB implications for that student. Meaning they can play the entire next season and no CB addition.

Does that help?
Last edited by Tri-StateYouthSports on Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Rosscoresident » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 pm

So...Adena has a CB of 2 because 2 basketball players live outside the district, but have attended Adena their entire lives. Harvest Prep has a CB of 110 because they have 22 players that came to HP either as Freshman or later in order to compete for state championships at the Division 3 level? Do I have that about right? Seems fair....



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Tri-StateYouthSports » Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:19 pm

Rosscoresident wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 pm
So...Adena has a CB of 2 because 2 basketball players live outside the district, but have attended Adena their entire lives. Harvest Prep has a CB of 110 because they have 22 players that came to HP either as Freshman or later in order to compete for state championships at the Division 3 level? Do I have that about right? Seems fair....
Adena, 2 Tier 1, which have attended continuously since the start of 7th grade.

Harvest prep, 110 would equate to 22 Tier 2, which have not attended continuously since the start of 7th grade.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Raider6309 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:26 pm

Rosscoresident wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 pm
So...Adena has a CB of 2 because 2 basketball players live outside the district, but have attended Adena their entire lives. Harvest Prep has a CB of 110 because they have 22 players that came to HP either as Freshman or later in order to compete for state championships at the Division 3 level? Do I have that about right? Seems fair....
They are a D4 school. Trimble had to always run into them and Africentric and they are less than half the size of Adena



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Rosscoresident » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:41 pm

Raider6309 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:26 pm
Rosscoresident wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 pm
So...Adena has a CB of 2 because 2 basketball players live outside the district, but have attended Adena their entire lives. Harvest Prep has a CB of 110 because they have 22 players that came to HP either as Freshman or later in order to compete for state championships at the Division 3 level? Do I have that about right? Seems fair....
They are a D4 school. Trimble had to always run into them and Africentric and they are less than half the size of Adena
If they are a D4 school, then why did Adena play them last night in the D3 tournament? You have been given false information. Your math is also a little fuzzy. Trimble enrollment is 101 which is way more than half of Adena’s 154



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by bsee12345 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:58 pm

Rosscoresident wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:41 pm
Raider6309 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:26 pm
Rosscoresident wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:07 pm
So...Adena has a CB of 2 because 2 basketball players live outside the district, but have attended Adena their entire lives. Harvest Prep has a CB of 110 because they have 22 players that came to HP either as Freshman or later in order to compete for state championships at the Division 3 level? Do I have that about right? Seems fair....
They are a D4 school. Trimble had to always run into them and Africentric and they are less than half the size of Adena
If they are a D4 school, then why did Adena play them last night in the D3 tournament? You have been given false information. Your math is also a little fuzzy. Trimble enrollment is 101 which is way more than half of Adena’s 154
The OHSAA classifys school a couple of ways. They use actual enrollment to determine Board Members numbers reprsentative to District Boards(Central, Southeast, Southwest, Northwest and Northeast) and it also uses this to determine reprensentation to the OHSAA Board. So each school is classified at Class A, Class AA and Class AAA school. Using actual enrollment Harvest Prep is a Class A school. However, for sports schools are put in Divisions. Using CB (competitive balance) numbers schools will go up in Divisions in sports based on their CB plus actual enrollment.
Not all sports use competitive balance- cross country, track, tennis, lacrose, field hockey and ice hockey do not use competitvie balance formula. Divsions are determined by actual enrollment for the listed sports.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by trojandave » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:29 am

Tri-StateYouthSports: Thanks for the clarification. I now have a much better understanding of the CB guidelines.



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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by wipala » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:49 pm

Which came first, chicken or egg? The question of open vs. moving into a district or simply going
to a school that has a program, most likely, going to State most years.
In Arizona, my understanding, we have open enrollment as well. In metro Phoenix, the same
schools win and the same schools lose year after year, as a rule...
We have 6 to 7 divisions for sports, in football we have an 8 man division for
some of the outer area schools.
I do not know if we have CB here or not, however there are schools that will draw kids from outside the district
to play ball in that school. Check results in AIA website.
IMO, the day of the homegrown student playing sports to the high level some do, is gone. The schools
that play within the guidelines most likely will not have success year in and year out..there are exceptions of course.
I do not have an answer but, something must happen or sports as we know it in High School will forever change...
Just my two cents worth......having said that
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Re: Enrollment #'s for Elite 8 Teams

Post by Tri-StateYouthSports » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:15 am

I updated the table in the original post after the Elite 8 games. The 4 teams that advanced to the Semi-Finals of each Division are at the top.



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