Pioneer Valley Conf 2015/2016

[Bazinga!]

I agree with the premise that you make using the college basketball reference. Very seldomly do all the top seeds make the final 4. But very seldomly do they lose the first game or two. And if many of those years FF had a .500 record this wouldn't be a conversion. They would be like most other varsity teams. But it just seems like they litterally win 15 or more games every year. With that kind of reg season dominance I think everyone would agree that those teams should have good tournament runs. Not EVERY year but more so than not. I'm not familiar with MF or they're yearly talent but if you consistently have a .500 record I would say expectations wouldn't be as high as a team with 15-17 wins. Does the PVC just not prepare teams for tournament as well as some of the other leagues in the East District?

[Bazinga!]

How many titles does Warren have?

You raise a good question. I have no clue but I can't imagine Warren has nearly as many league titles in the past 15 years or so. I can't think of any school who would have that kind of dominance in their league. But Warren must have at least a few District titles in there.

Are there teams out there who rarely win their league but seem to consistently have unexpected good tourney runs? Seem to get better later in the year than early?

[efarns]

Every year is different, so it's hard to pin it down, which probably makes it good discussion board fodder. Under Liedtke, Fort Frye usually seemed to hit their peak early in the season and plateau by Mid-January. Coach Henniger has a different system and it's too early to generalize. The team that knocked them out last season was in The PVC and Fort Frye had already beaten them twice. They had pretty similar schedules, so I doubt you could chalk it up to that.

[enigmaax]

How many titles does Warren have?

You raise a good question. I have no clue but I can't imagine Warren has nearly as many league titles in the past 15 years or so. I can't think of any school who would have that kind of dominance in their league. But Warren must have at least a few District titles in there.

Are there teams out there who rarely win their league but seem to consistently have unexpected good tourney runs? Seem to get better later in the year than early?

The year Warren went to state was also their first ever District title.

[EasternDspy]

That's my point Warren has been one of the best programs in the area and they don't win districts every year.

[Bazinga!]

Listen no one ever said every year. I know regional runs are few and far between but Warren also doesn't avg 15-18 wins every year like FF. they've had good years and bad. A bad year for FF is 14 wins. you have to admit that considering the number of wins in the regular season since 99 it's under achieving. I mean Waterford has as many District Titles since 99 as FF! You're telling me that they've had the same level of talent over the last 15 years as FF has? Come on.

[enigmaax]

One of y'all needs to do the research and show who FF lost to each year in the tourney and how that team ended up doing.

In general, teams from Washington County and probably the immediate surrounding counties aren't going to measure success by a State or even Regional tourney appearance. Those are extraordinary seasons and a bonus but not expected. Off the top of my head, Belpre had 3 State runs and I'm not sure if they made any other Regionals. Waterford has been to 2 Regionals ever. I remember what was probably Frontier's best team ever losing to River in a District final (?). I don't know that Marietta has been to a Regional in my lifetime.

Heck, Athens had what seemed like an all-world team in the last few years but Warren just had their number (and those teams happened to be in the same Sectional).

[Bazinga!]

Agree to disagree boys. Forget regional runs. Sectional titles? District final appearances? Gauging success in regular season wins and having NO impact in the tournament year after year after year is not success. I'd be satisfied with a win or two In The tournaments but apparently I'm one of the few. I don't think FF or anyone else should be at state every year but bowing out consistently in Sectionals in no good. Again this has to speak to playing in a weak PVC conference that doesn't prepare a team for tournament play the way the other East District leagues do

[enigmaax]

Yeah, what are the numbers as far as Sectionals? I remember a few upsets here and there, but Sectionals are just about automatic for most good teams. I'd be interested to know how many times they lost to a lower seed. I mean, 15 wins sounds like a lot, but if there are 6 teams in a Sectional with at least that many, it is no longer automatic for anyone.

[EasternDspy]

From 06-08 the Cadets made districts every year winning in 06. In 2006 they beat the number 1 team in the state 25-0 Bellaire lead by 3 time all stater Nate Davis. In 07 in district semi they beat state ranked Garaway and Tyler Gerber. In 07 and 08 they lost to Tusky Valley in district finals and district semi. In 2003 the Cadets were number 2 and 24-0 and lost 37-32 to #1 Garaway. Garaway would go on to lose in the state finals. In 2006 regional they lost to a state runner up in Ironton. They have had nice tourney runs over the years. In 09 that team was special going (20-2) but lost in sectional final to Trail. In 2012 they made it to districts and lost to Garaway a game they probably should of won. In 2014 They also lost to Garaway in a good game at districts. It's not like they've had no tourney success at all.

[efarns]

Agree to disagree boys. Forget regional runs. Sectional titles? District final appearances? Gauging success in regular season wins and having NO impact in the tournament year after year after year is not success. I'd be satisfied with a win or two In The tournaments but apparently I'm one of the few. I don't think FF or anyone else should be at state every year but bowing out consistently in Sectionals in no good. Again this has to speak to playing in a weak PVC conference that doesn't prepare a team for tournament play the way the other East District leagues do

Up until here, this was kind of just a discussion and I watched it for a few days to see where you were going, and now you've given your opinion, and now I will tell you what I think about it.

Thank you for caring enough about our school to have an opinion. The basketball program at Fort Frye does not exist to gain your approval and doesn't need you to validate their existence. Personally, I am secure enough in who I am to not need you to like or approve of my high school's team. So, since you are not a PVC person, your opinion was never asked for, and nobody needs it, I am wondering why you have taken the time to give it.

[EasternDspy]

Cadets go length of the court with 2 secs left to beat Bellaire in OT 56-54. All Carter Lang does is knock down big 3.

[EasternDspy]

Caldwell beats Toronto 55-54 OT to advance to play Wheeling Central in the AA Ovac Final. PVC

[J_Manziel2]

Caldwell beats Toronto 55-54 OT to advance to play Wheeling Central in the AA Ovac Final. PVC

Sounds like 2 awesome games to be in attendance at. Heard Caldwells free throw shooting was horrendous but they were able to stay close and lean on Tanner "The Closer" Clark to come away with the victory. 9 seconds and he goes from one end of the court and shoots a floater from about 10 feet that goes down with less than 2 seconds. Gonna be nice seeing back to back PVC teams in the finals Saturday- make it 3 Monroe to guarantee a champ.

[EasternDspy]

If Magnolia wins that will set up Wheeling Central vs Caldwell 2A and Fort vs Magnolia 3A the perfect games to get the league ready for tourney play.

[EasternDspy]

https://www.facebook.com/josh.hupp.940/ ... 245886598/

[EasternDspy]

That's the play in the Bellaire at Fort Frye game

[Bazinga!]

Agree to disagree boys. Forget regional runs. Sectional titles? District final appearances? Gauging success in regular season wins and having NO impact in the tournament year after year after year is not success. I'd be satisfied with a win or two In The tournaments but apparently I'm one of the few. I don't think FF or anyone else should be at state every year but bowing out consistently in Sectionals in no good. Again this has to speak to playing in a weak PVC conference that doesn't prepare a team for tournament play the way the other East District leagues do

Up until here, this was kind of just a discussion and I watched it for a few days to see where you were going, and now you've given your opinion, and now I will tell you what I think about it.

Thank you for caring enough about our school to have an opinion. The basketball program at Fort Frye does not exist to gain your approval and doesn't need you to validate their existence. Personally, I am secure enough in who I am to not need you to like or approve of my high school's team. So, since you are not a PVC person, your opinion was never asked for, and nobody needs it, I am wondering why you have taken the time to give it.

Well I'm sure you already know this but you would be being quite hypocritical my friend. We never asked for your opinion on the matter either. I am a PVC person and I am from FF. if you had read the posts carefully you would know this. I don't think anywhere on the website does anyone need to be ASKED for an opinion prior to giving it. If that was the case shut the whole thing down or use it strictly for sharing scores. I think my opinions despite being different from your own are warranted and valid. I give FF credit as to being the only team I can think of in this area with this kind of problem. No one else has the league dominance they do. I merely pose the question as to why it doesn't translate over as well as it should. Does the league games not challenge them enough? Are they not getting quality out of conf. competition? If this issue or topic of discussion isn't one you can handle then please carry on reading and not posting. This is the same defensive reaction I get from most other Beverly folks on this topic.

And I will continue to give my opinion anytime I want to. As long as there has been cordial response to it which again if you had read the many posts on this topic there has been. So sit back and enjoy or just stop reading.

[EasternDspy]

The thing is Fort Frye does try to get good competition but teams don't want to play them out of league. They have done very well in the OVAC over the years. They always play Warren and Belpre. Picked up a series vs Linsly when they were one of the better OVAC programs. They normally do in seasons shootouts recently playing Parkersburg South, Williamstown, Columbus Bishop Hartley , Harrison Central and St Clairsville. I'm not sure what else they can do.

[Bazinga!]

The thing is Fort Frye does try to get good competition but teams don't want to play them out of league. They have done very well in the OVAC over the years. They always play Warren and Belpre. Picked up a series vs Linsly when they were one of the better OVAC programs. They normally do in seasons shootouts recently playing Parkersburg South, Williamstown, Columbus Bishop Hartley , Harrison Central and St Clairsville. I'm not sure what else they can do.

That's true they have scheduled better the last year or two. That's where my original post about Dan racking up Ws vs weaker opponents years ago. I'm a fan of Dans and have known him well for years but don't tell me that didn't happen. Dan even knows he didn't always play tough competition. He's admitted that and schedules the girls tougher because of it. And I think that last nights W is a direct reflection of the "not so successful" regular season they had this year. They may not have won the league outright like they normally do but they've played in some close games (losing some) and were better prepared for a close hard fought tourney game. That has rarely been the case in the past. And I think this year they have less all around talent as they have in the past few years but may be a much better overall team because the level of opponents they are playing. And it's not coming from the PVC, outside of Caldwell anyways.

Plus they need to scrap the Waterford rivalry. I know the games have been closer in recent years but that games really a waste in my opinion. For both teams.

JUST MY OPINION. Lol