Referees

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Raider6309
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Re: Referees

Post by Raider6309 »

^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars


M0TIVAT0R
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Re: Referees

Post by M0TIVAT0R »

RAIDER6309 wrote:^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars
The amount of pay for officials is a school board approved item. Therefore, a solution to that problem could be to attend a BOE meeting and broach the subject you just mentioned.


M0TIVAT0R
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Re: Referees

Post by M0TIVAT0R »

RAIDER6309 wrote:^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars
I still maintain that the best answer for this problem, if there is a problem, at least for the TVC is a league assigner for officials. Many leagues have them. With an assigner there is an unbiased person to complain to. At least then you would not see the same officials at a school. Nor could a coach hire a specific type of crew for certain games. The problem with this in the TVC is there are a few schools that refuse to be open minded about this subject. They apparently want their coaches to be able to get what ever officials they choose for some or all of the games.


spartans_fan
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Re: Referees

Post by spartans_fan »

Motivator,

The comment about the league assigner is 100% correct. It should happen, but change is a hard pill to swallow.


Crab's Brother
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Re: Referees

Post by Crab's Brother »

RAIDER6309 wrote:^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars
What team is bringing in 5K on a high school basketball game? We had a large crowd (and we have one of the biggest gyms around) against Wheelersburg a week or two ago and the gate was not quite 4K. I don't think some people realize the amount of school passes, kid passes, and senior citizen passes are given out and how many people do not pay to get in games. If three refs are paid $100 a pop for a girls game, the school will take a bath on those games.


bbjunky81
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Re: Referees

Post by bbjunky81 »

Crab's brother wrote:
RAIDER6309 wrote:^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars
What team is bringing in 5K on a high school basketball game? We had a large crowd (and we have one of the biggest gyms around) against Wheelersburg a week or two ago and the gate was not quite 4K. I don't think some people realize the amount of school passes, kid passes, and senior citizen passes are given out and how many people do not pay to get in games. If three refs are paid $100 a pop for a girls game, the school will take a bath on those games.
Crab,

I respect your opinion and perhaps I should elaborate a little bit more.

While $100 is definitely quite the increase, the current pay of $65 is undeniably not enough (in my eyes anyway). Making the pay that much higher will not be that big of a hit to a schools athletic department, unless the school draws little to no crowd. The biggest reason I'm a proponent for the pay raise? It'll make AD's and Administrators really look closely at referees and evaluate them the way they're supposed to be evaluated. Also, it SHOULD increase the amount of people who want to be referees and perhaps competition for jobs could increase the performance of those lucky enough to referee.

Just my two cents.


M0TIVAT0R
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Re: Referees

Post by M0TIVAT0R »

I believe someone else eluded to this, but I will state it again, the best officials do not take games based simply on the highest pay. The best crews like to do games in various areas, and very few of them want more than two games with the same team per season. The ones who do games in the same area all the time are either an older crew tired of the travel, a young crew just getting started, or not in very high demand. Take that for what you will.


M0TIVAT0R
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Re: Referees

Post by M0TIVAT0R »

bbjunky81 wrote:
Crab's brother wrote:
RAIDER6309 wrote:^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars
What team is bringing in 5K on a high school basketball game? We had a large crowd (and we have one of the biggest gyms around) against Wheelersburg a week or two ago and the gate was not quite 4K. I don't think some people realize the amount of school passes, kid passes, and senior citizen passes are given out and how many people do not pay to get in games. If three refs are paid $100 a pop for a girls game, the school will take a bath on those games.
Crab,

I respect your opinion and perhaps I should elaborate a little bit more.

While $100 is definitely quite the increase, the current pay of $65 is undeniably not enough (in my eyes anyway). Making the pay that much higher will not be that big of a hit to a schools athletic department, unless the school draws little to no crowd. The biggest reason I'm a proponent for the pay raise? It'll make AD's and Administrators really look closely at referees and evaluate them the way they're supposed to be evaluated. Also, it SHOULD increase the amount of people who want to be referees and perhaps competition for jobs could increase the performance of those lucky enough to referee.

Just my two cents.
The way most coaches and AD's hire officials is to ask a crew what their open dates are for the next season, or next few seasons when they come to do a game. It is easy, and takes little time to do this. So after a few years you get the same officials doing games at those schools. While they may rate them, unless they do a terrible job in the mind of the home coach or AD mind you, they will get more games in the future at that school. Regardless of what the visiting coach and fans think about the job they did. That's why you hear, "every time we come here we see the same #$@%^&* crew," from some fans and coaches. If you have a league assigner non of this happens.


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Blackcobra
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Re: Referees

Post by Blackcobra »

Yea that sounds like a good idea," League Assigner"


Poo Bear
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Re: Referees

Post by Poo Bear »

The being professional comment should apply to coaches players and fans too. If I was a referee I would take the control if the game right at the jump. Coaches would coach parents would cheer not yell at the referees like an idiot, or I'd send them packing.


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Golfer101
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Re: Referees

Post by Golfer101 »

Have any of you people ever been and watched two major colleges teams play? Do you think the college students are yelling good job Mr. official you are doing a great job? Do you see college officials rabbit earing the crowd? No you don't. This is part of the atmosphere. They love the big game excitement. They know college students yelling at them is just that and it is not going to crush their precious egos. Give me a break on all the political correct bs and let students be students and have fun at a ball game. Yelling four eyes at an official shouldn't send him into a shell. If it does he is in the wrong profession. Just like players on opposing teams get booed. As a player you kind of like that just as you like getting cheered by the home team. I keep reading the league assigner comments, I say go for it but you are still going to have the same small pool of officials to pick from. The only difference you will see one you think that is bad at a different school. You are still going to get the same guys just maybe at different places. Do the math.


ManitouDan
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Re: Referees

Post by ManitouDan »

Regulator wrote:I will give my two cents. Most referees are out of shape and this causes them to be out of position. Also many don't hustle!!!! Get in position is all I ask! Just like anything else, there are bad ones, there are average ones, and there are good ones. Very few great ones.
Now, next thing is , it still doesn't give coaches and fans the right to yell at them all game, whether they are disrespectful or not. Many times this just escalates the tension. It doesn't help!!!
Coaches lose track of what they are doing , which is coaching! Players play, coaches coach, and fans cheer! Enough said.

Bingo !! I dont know that I would say " most " are out of shape but there are a couple that either too old or too out of shape to keep up with the game and they are giving the majority a bad name . I felt sorry for the crew working my daughters HS game last week , they had a local older guy who must call a bunch of games at this school as he was chumming it up with the locals before the game ( looks unprofessional to me ) , then during the contest very rarely runs , and I use that description very lightly , any more than 10 feet on either side of the mid court stripe . I have no reason to make this up but the old guy called a rebounding foul from the OPPOSITE end of the mid court stripe from where the play occured , while his officiating buddy watched the play from 5 feet away and made no call. And twice made out of bounds calls that were so blantantly wrong neither team knew who should take the ball out of bounds . And odd but the mistakes always seemed to favor the home team. Its time for that grandpa to hang it up.


baseball16
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Re: Referees

Post by baseball16 »

As an official at the high school level I do it for two reasons. 1. I love the game,( Can't play it anymore because of a bad acl injury). 2. It allows me to get through the winter time blues, gets me out of the house. :razz:
Yes, the extra money is a nice supplemental. Not great, but nice.
Do I or my crew get every call right? I think we do. ;-) no, not really, we are human!
My advice to fans is scream as loud as you want, just don't make it personal. My advice to coaches, is coach, if you have a question ask, but don't whine!! ( there are a lot of whiners) ;-) good luck the rest of the year to all teams and hopefully if my crew is working we do a good job.


Hitops2.0
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Re: Referees

Post by Hitops2.0 »

OK , here is my 2 cent theory , which some has been previously stated, it seems that the refs I've seen this yr are not calling blatant jersey pulling , blatant flopping ( a technical foul supposedly this year ) and are letting completely out of control pell mell offensive dribbling into a defensive player with shoulder and forearm shivers and call a defensive foul . 3 man crews and I still see one out of position or not hustling ... And if one misses an obvious call there is a attitude of " that wasnt my area " they should conference more. also if you are a big man playing underneath you are at the mercy of absolutely every ankle biter on the court ....I have never seen such beatings the rebounder takes and never gets the call whether he's just trying to put back in or kick out for the break they get head slapped , hung on , and undercut ... Its SAD, my son gets beat to death , he says its frustrating and I say sure it is ... You work to get position , do it correctly and box out and then get the tar beat out of you and some of smacks you can hear from the stands .. And last but not least COUNT OUT THE DAG GONE 5 SECONDS RULE IN THE BACKCOURT ALREADY ....WAKE UP .....coaches should be able to send game film of to ohsaa for referee evaluations


momg
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Re: Referees

Post by momg »

I happily referee and have been doing it for a few years. It doesn't matter what sport you ref/umpire some fans will stand out with what/how they say things. The lower levels that you referee a lot of times the harder it is to ref, due to a lack of skills by the players as they develope. AAU basketball can be even worse because the fans are usually sitting right on top of you. With that being said, mom and dad still want their all star to get every call. I try to be consistent, hustle to position every time down the court, but sometimes you just get beat.
Not all contact is a foul. Every situation is different. As a ref you have a split second to make the call, or if you wait and have a little bit slower whistle, to let the play finish, you may have just a touch longer. On a block or charge call, there are several variables that you have to read before making the call. I had a freshman boys game this year that we called over 40 fouls. The scorers table told us before they JV game they stopped counting. Nothing got out of hand, and they said we did a good job (the home team lost). We came out for the JV game and the foul could was only in the 20's.
There are good and bad officials everywhere, just like the fans can be. Not all fans know all the rules (nor do the need to), or have the same view as we do on the court. Give us a break next time, or come put the stripes on and have the same fun I do.
The 5 second count is only a frontcourt violation. While the ball is in the backcourt only a 10 second count is kept.


Hitops2.0
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Re: Referees

Post by Hitops2.0 »

[quote="Sportsfan2"]I happily referee and have been doing it for a few years. It doesn't matter what sport you ref/umpire some fans will stand out with what/how they say things. The lower levels that you referee a lot of times the harder it is to ref, due to a lack of skills by the players as they develope. AAU basketball can be even worse because the fans are usually sitting right on top of you. With that being said, mom and dad still want their all star to get every call. I try to be consistent, hustle to position every time down the court, but sometimes you just get beat.
Not all contact is a foul. Every situation is different. As a ref you have a split second to make the call, or if you wait and have a little bit slower whistle, to let the play finish, you may have just a touch longer. On a block or charge call, there are several variables that you have to read before making the call. I had a freshman boys game this year that we called over 40 fouls. The scorers table told us before they JV game they stopped counting. Nothing got out of hand, and they said we did a good job (the home team lost). We came out for the JV game and the foul could was only in the 20's.
There are good and bad officials everywhere, just like the fans can be. Not all fans know all the rules (nor do the need to), or have the same view as we do on the court. Give us a break next time, or come put the stripes on and have the same fun I do.
The 5 second count is only a frontcourt violation. While the ball is in the backcourt only a 10 second count is kept.[/quote
I stand corrected , I meant frontcourt in the half court set , and agree with the number of calls and The skill sets , however the kids at JV and varsity level are playing far more aggressively which to me is fine, I don't mind "play ons" , however this blatant jersey grabbing and and forearm throwing while setting moving screens is frustrating for fans to watch and players play against and not get a call . it seems as the play gets more aggressive over the years the refs lose sight " that a foul is still a foul " until you get what we're seeing today ....NO CALLS ...I also understand that the block/charge is a split second call with lots of variables but I've seen plenty of head scratchers this year where you wonder what game the ref was watching ...... I think what we as fans want are referees that have played the game, understand game flow , be fair and consistent , try to get into good position, call a foul when its a foul , reward GOOD defense , don't reward out an out of control offensive player by calling anything and don't anticipate contact , I see an awful lot of that, the refs mind is already made up that theres gonna be foul on a breakaway or on the blocked shot . and if you take pride in what you do ... I hope to see your crew on the court


Trooper
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Re: Referees

Post by Trooper »

A referee gets paid $65 per game for a varsity game in the SOC. That's a league rule. I don't think raising the pay to $80 per game is a silly argument with all things considered. Would it make referees call a better game? I highly doubt it, not me, at least. Easy on those of you saying that "$80 an hour" to ref a game is crazy, just calm down. I haven't seen very many hour-long varsity games. Officials generally have a 30 minute to 1 hour drive, one way, to their games, after working all day. Most varsity officials arrive at 6:00 for the JV tip and offer advice/help to the JV officials at halftime and after their game. The average varsity game is usually over around 9:00. Most nights I'm lucky to get home before 10:00 to see my family. It was my decision to become an official and I'm not complaining about the late nights. I don't think the extra pay per game would break the athletic departments like some people think, considering they charge $5 per ticket. That's only an extra $45 per game set aside for officials.


Ushoot2Ishoot3
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Re: Referees

Post by Ushoot2Ishoot3 »

I feel youre right trooper that it wouldn't make the "less than average" refs call any better. I would hope that it would interest quality personnel to join in and bolster the good ones that are there already. I know it wouldn't break the bank either even if it was just for a boys varsity game. It may be an incentive for others to want to be able to do those games.


mikepike
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Re: Referees

Post by mikepike »

I recommend every fan sit at least one game at the scorers table, running the clock and paying attention instead of talking to your neighbor and complaining about each and every call. Then they will see that officials try to do their best (there are a few really bad ones, a few really good ones, and many in between) and have no vested interest in who wins and who loses. Running the clock for 4 years really opened my eyes. How many on here or in the stands would trade places with them? I know I wouldn't.


Swampfox
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Re: Referees

Post by Swampfox »

I feel certain established coaches sometimes get calls especially if they are on the officials. Coaches that are 4 & 5 ft on the court coaching the game and other coaches have to stay in the box. I agree that some referees are good for referees except they cant keep up the pace. I have seen fouls calls on layups with the official at halfcourt. What is your feeling about zone refereeing? It is my understanding a lot of refs dont blow the whistle if its not in their zone. I feel they get paid to call what they see. Also I was told by refs that the end of the quarter or game fouls where a player is fouled on a despartion shot is not called. I feel its up to the defensive player not to foul. Also referees dont want to decide the game on a questionable foul. If it is normally a foul and they dont call it they have decided the game. Call the foul and let the players decide the game. After all players are the one that are to decide the game.


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