Referees

[bbjunky81]

I've been around Southern Ohio basketball for several years now, and I have to agree with the majority of what the posters in this thread has said.

First off, there is definitely a shortage of "good" referees in the area. Coming off of that, I want to point out that there are still several REALLY REALLY GOOD referees in the area, and as fans we truly appreciate their value. However, the decline is obvious. I've seen calls the last few years that are so unbelievably off I question if some of the refs involved even truly know the rules of basketball. They are all human, no doubt, but to call something that clearly isn't there is a disservice to the young men on the floor giving it their all.

Second, the confusion on certain calls has escalated into a legitimate problem. The main example - the offensive foul call. Certain referees get so caught up in the moment, they'll call a charge on a driving player because the momentum of the game almost asks for that call. Other refs are over-evaluating the "player control foul" on driving players and call an offensive foul even when there's little to no contact. I've seen a few teams that do a terrific job of taking charges this year, only to see a player set up and get called for a "block" almost as if the referee just wants to balance out the amount of charges he calls. It shouldn't be like that.

Lastly, I'm all for the pay increase and I honestly feel raising the pay to $100 is not only acceptable but needed. Some of these referees have been reffing since the 80s/90s when gas was no more than $1/gallon. As the prices of EVERYTHING in today's world continue to go up, as gas prices rise, and as the economy remains in a recession, a solid pay check is hard to come by. Governmental assistance is more prominent by the day and less and less people wish to go out and earn their keep. Raise the payment for refs. It'll motivate young men to get into the profession to help get through their college days, potentially igniting a new passion in their lives to continue refereeing post-college years, and would motivate current referees to continue evaluating themselves and their calls because they'll know they're no longer getting chump change to referee the game.

[Crab's Brother]

I've been around Southern Ohio basketball for several years now, and I have to agree with the majority of what the posters in this thread has said.

First off, there is definitely a shortage of "good" referees in the area. Coming off of that, I want to point out that there are still several REALLY REALLY GOOD referees in the area, and as fans we truly appreciate their value. However, the decline is obvious. I've seen calls the last few years that are so unbelievably off I question if some of the refs involved even truly know the rules of basketball. They are all human, no doubt, but to call something that clearly isn't there is a disservice to the young men on the floor giving it their all.

Second, the confusion on certain calls has escalated into a legitimate problem. The main example - the offensive foul call. Certain referees get so caught up in the moment, they'll call a charge on a driving player because the momentum of the game almost asks for that call. Other refs are over-evaluating the "player control foul" on driving players and call an offensive foul even when there's little to no contact. I've seen a few teams that do a terrific job of taking charges this year, only to see a player set up and get called for a "block" almost as if the referee just wants to balance out the amount of charges he calls. It shouldn't be like that.

Lastly, I'm all for the pay increase and I honestly feel raising the pay to $100 is not only acceptable but needed. Some of these referees have been reffing since the 80s/90s when gas was no more than $1/gallon. As the prices of EVERYTHING in today's world continue to go up, as gas prices rise, and as the economy remains in a recession, a solid pay check is hard to come by. Governmental assistance is more prominent by the day and less and less people wish to go out and earn their keep. Raise the payment for refs. It'll motivate young men to get into the profession to help get through their college days, potentially igniting a new passion in their lives to continue refereeing post-college years, and would motivate current referees to continue evaluating themselves and their calls because they'll know they're no longer getting chump change to referee the game.

Many athletic departments are on a shoe string budget as it is and some are having to resort to pay for play. There will be no local basketball before refs are paid $100 for an hour of work. That is not going to happen, nor should it.

[M0TIVAT0R]

People do get to decide if a call is good or bad, to suggest that most fans aren't educated enough about basketball is insulting. You shouldn't act crazy though, an occasional voice of disagreement should be expected. Its not an operation or physics. Its basketball, pretty cut and dry. I do feel there are many inconsistencies that often frustrate the onlooker. Some refs still allow the slower player to hold on defense while others do not. City refs allow more 2 step "euro" move( illegal) while others do not. Modern athletes can "hop step" through gaps in defenses a long way, at 2 feet there is no call, if a kid can jump 6 feet to a 2 footed stop you will hear a whistle, which is a wrong call, generally it just looked odd. Wish there was more consistency.

They have new classes every year for people to become officials. Maybe some of those "insulted educated" people will sign up this year?

[93Bulldog]

I do feel they need to pay referees 80.00 a game.

3 refs ... $80.00 per game ... $240.00 for what, an hour and a half?

Let me know whan that happens, I'll go get my license ... lol

[M0TIVAT0R]

The bottom line is this: you can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. Screaming at officials at games is part of the problem. No good ever comes from it, and usually bad things come from it. So instead of screaming at them, and then getting on here and defending your right to scream at them, work to make things better. Some officials make $10,000 to $12,000 dollars or more per year just doing youth league through high school games. Not a bad supplement to ones income if you feel you have the ability to be better than what you are seeing. If you don't want to yourself, start talking to young athletes about doing it, and put a positive seed in their heads instead of them just hearing you complain, and seeing you scream. Approach your local BOE and school administration, or even just a PE teacher about including sports officiating in the PE curriculum. They could have quality officials come in from the community to help work with the students. That may be enough to motivate some of the students to become officials. High school sports is one of the few venues that the average citizen can have an immediate positive, or negative impact. But screaming during games, and posting negative things about a bald headed ref will rarely if ever have a positive impact. So you folks get to choose if you want to be part of the problem, or part of the solution.

[Raider6309]

^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars

[M0TIVAT0R]

^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars

The amount of pay for officials is a school board approved item. Therefore, a solution to that problem could be to attend a BOE meeting and broach the subject you just mentioned.

[M0TIVAT0R]

^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars

I still maintain that the best answer for this problem, if there is a problem, at least for the TVC is a league assigner for officials. Many leagues have them. With an assigner there is an unbiased person to complain to. At least then you would not see the same officials at a school. Nor could a coach hire a specific type of crew for certain games. The problem with this in the TVC is there are a few schools that refuse to be open minded about this subject. They apparently want their coaches to be able to get what ever officials they choose for some or all of the games.

[spartans_fan]

Motivator,

The comment about the league assigner is 100% correct. It should happen, but change is a hard pill to swallow.

[Crab's Brother]

^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars

What team is bringing in 5K on a high school basketball game? We had a large crowd (and we have one of the biggest gyms around) against Wheelersburg a week or two ago and the gate was not quite 4K. I don't think some people realize the amount of school passes, kid passes, and senior citizen passes are given out and how many people do not pay to get in games. If three refs are paid $100 a pop for a girls game, the school will take a bath on those games.

[bbjunky81]

^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars

What team is bringing in 5K on a high school basketball game? We had a large crowd (and we have one of the biggest gyms around) against Wheelersburg a week or two ago and the gate was not quite 4K. I don't think some people realize the amount of school passes, kid passes, and senior citizen passes are given out and how many people do not pay to get in games. If three refs are paid $100 a pop for a girls game, the school will take a bath on those games.

Crab,

I respect your opinion and perhaps I should elaborate a little bit more.

While $100 is definitely quite the increase, the current pay of $65 is undeniably not enough (in my eyes anyway). Making the pay that much higher will not be that big of a hit to a schools athletic department, unless the school draws little to no crowd. The biggest reason I'm a proponent for the pay raise? It'll make AD's and Administrators really look closely at referees and evaluate them the way they're supposed to be evaluated. Also, it SHOULD increase the amount of people who want to be referees and perhaps competition for jobs could increase the performance of those lucky enough to referee.

Just my two cents.

[M0TIVAT0R]

I believe someone else eluded to this, but I will state it again, the best officials do not take games based simply on the highest pay. The best crews like to do games in various areas, and very few of them want more than two games with the same team per season. The ones who do games in the same area all the time are either an older crew tired of the travel, a young crew just getting started, or not in very high demand. Take that for what you will.

[M0TIVAT0R]

^u will always have those few fans that scream at every call. If its a big game, paying more is a drop in the bucket when the school is making 5k-10k dollars

What team is bringing in 5K on a high school basketball game? We had a large crowd (and we have one of the biggest gyms around) against Wheelersburg a week or two ago and the gate was not quite 4K. I don't think some people realize the amount of school passes, kid passes, and senior citizen passes are given out and how many people do not pay to get in games. If three refs are paid $100 a pop for a girls game, the school will take a bath on those games.

Crab,

I respect your opinion and perhaps I should elaborate a little bit more.

While $100 is definitely quite the increase, the current pay of $65 is undeniably not enough (in my eyes anyway). Making the pay that much higher will not be that big of a hit to a schools athletic department, unless the school draws little to no crowd. The biggest reason I'm a proponent for the pay raise? It'll make AD's and Administrators really look closely at referees and evaluate them the way they're supposed to be evaluated. Also, it SHOULD increase the amount of people who want to be referees and perhaps competition for jobs could increase the performance of those lucky enough to referee.

Just my two cents.

The way most coaches and AD's hire officials is to ask a crew what their open dates are for the next season, or next few seasons when they come to do a game. It is easy, and takes little time to do this. So after a few years you get the same officials doing games at those schools. While they may rate them, unless they do a terrible job in the mind of the home coach or AD mind you, they will get more games in the future at that school. Regardless of what the visiting coach and fans think about the job they did. That's why you hear, "every time we come here we see the same #$@%^&* crew," from some fans and coaches. If you have a league assigner non of this happens.

[Blackcobra]

Yea that sounds like a good idea," League Assigner"

[Poo Bear]

The being professional comment should apply to coaches players and fans too. If I was a referee I would take the control if the game right at the jump. Coaches would coach parents would cheer not yell at the referees like an idiot, or I'd send them packing.

[Golfer101]

Have any of you people ever been and watched two major colleges teams play? Do you think the college students are yelling good job Mr. official you are doing a great job? Do you see college officials rabbit earing the crowd? No you don't. This is part of the atmosphere. They love the big game excitement. They know college students yelling at them is just that and it is not going to crush their precious egos. Give me a break on all the political correct bs and let students be students and have fun at a ball game. Yelling four eyes at an official shouldn't send him into a shell. If it does he is in the wrong profession. Just like players on opposing teams get booed. As a player you kind of like that just as you like getting cheered by the home team. I keep reading the league assigner comments, I say go for it but you are still going to have the same small pool of officials to pick from. The only difference you will see one you think that is bad at a different school. You are still going to get the same guys just maybe at different places. Do the math.

[ManitouDan]

I will give my two cents. Most referees are out of shape and this causes them to be out of position. Also many don't hustle!!!! Get in position is all I ask! Just like anything else, there are bad ones, there are average ones, and there are good ones. Very few great ones.
Now, next thing is , it still doesn't give coaches and fans the right to yell at them all game, whether they are disrespectful or not. Many times this just escalates the tension. It doesn't help!!!
Coaches lose track of what they are doing , which is coaching! Players play, coaches coach, and fans cheer! Enough said.

Bingo !! I dont know that I would say " most " are out of shape but there are a couple that either too old or too out of shape to keep up with the game and they are giving the majority a bad name . I felt sorry for the crew working my daughters HS game last week , they had a local older guy who must call a bunch of games at this school as he was chumming it up with the locals before the game ( looks unprofessional to me ) , then during the contest very rarely runs , and I use that description very lightly , any more than 10 feet on either side of the mid court stripe . I have no reason to make this up but the old guy called a rebounding foul from the OPPOSITE end of the mid court stripe from where the play occured , while his officiating buddy watched the play from 5 feet away and made no call. And twice made out of bounds calls that were so blantantly wrong neither team knew who should take the ball out of bounds . And odd but the mistakes always seemed to favor the home team. Its time for that grandpa to hang it up.

[baseball16]

As an official at the high school level I do it for two reasons. 1. I love the game,( Can't play it anymore because of a bad acl injury). 2. It allows me to get through the winter time blues, gets me out of the house.
Yes, the extra money is a nice supplemental. Not great, but nice.
Do I or my crew get every call right? I think we do. no, not really, we are human!
My advice to fans is scream as loud as you want, just don't make it personal. My advice to coaches, is coach, if you have a question ask, but don't whine!! ( there are a lot of whiners) good luck the rest of the year to all teams and hopefully if my crew is working we do a good job.

[Hitops2.0]

OK , here is my 2 cent theory , which some has been previously stated, it seems that the refs I've seen this yr are not calling blatant jersey pulling , blatant flopping ( a technical foul supposedly this year ) and are letting completely out of control pell mell offensive dribbling into a defensive player with shoulder and forearm shivers and call a defensive foul . 3 man crews and I still see one out of position or not hustling ... And if one misses an obvious call there is a attitude of " that wasnt my area " they should conference more. also if you are a big man playing underneath you are at the mercy of absolutely every ankle biter on the court ....I have never seen such beatings the rebounder takes and never gets the call whether he's just trying to put back in or kick out for the break they get head slapped , hung on , and undercut ... Its SAD, my son gets beat to death , he says its frustrating and I say sure it is ... You work to get position , do it correctly and box out and then get the tar beat out of you and some of smacks you can hear from the stands .. And last but not least COUNT OUT THE DAG GONE 5 SECONDS RULE IN THE BACKCOURT ALREADY ....WAKE UP .....coaches should be able to send game film of to ohsaa for referee evaluations

[momg]

I happily referee and have been doing it for a few years. It doesn't matter what sport you ref/umpire some fans will stand out with what/how they say things. The lower levels that you referee a lot of times the harder it is to ref, due to a lack of skills by the players as they develope. AAU basketball can be even worse because the fans are usually sitting right on top of you. With that being said, mom and dad still want their all star to get every call. I try to be consistent, hustle to position every time down the court, but sometimes you just get beat.
Not all contact is a foul. Every situation is different. As a ref you have a split second to make the call, or if you wait and have a little bit slower whistle, to let the play finish, you may have just a touch longer. On a block or charge call, there are several variables that you have to read before making the call. I had a freshman boys game this year that we called over 40 fouls. The scorers table told us before they JV game they stopped counting. Nothing got out of hand, and they said we did a good job (the home team lost). We came out for the JV game and the foul could was only in the 20's.
There are good and bad officials everywhere, just like the fans can be. Not all fans know all the rules (nor do the need to), or have the same view as we do on the court. Give us a break next time, or come put the stripes on and have the same fun I do.
The 5 second count is only a frontcourt violation. While the ball is in the backcourt only a 10 second count is kept.