Basketball Question: You be the Ref

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blockcharge
Freshman Team
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:08 pm

Basketball Question: You be the Ref

Post by blockcharge »

Play - Team A scores a goal, while the ball is dead team A requests and is granted a time out. After the time out the official mistakenly awards the ball to team A, A1 passes to the ball to A2, who scores. The mistake is then discovered by the officials.

Whats the ruling?


mhs95_06
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by mhs95_06 »

Add some intrigue to it! On the scoring play B's best player, who has four fouls is called for his 5th on the play.


riverball
JV Team
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by riverball »

No basket, no foul, time put back on the clock. Team B's ball.


athens78
All State
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by athens78 »

I don't believe time is put back on the clock.


The Ghost of Swanker
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by The Ghost of Swanker »

no basket, no foul. Team B gets it back.... IT does Happen.


blockcharge
Freshman Team
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by blockcharge »

Ruling - Once A2 touched A1's throw in pass after the time out the throw in ended and the mistake cannot be corrected...Rule 4-42-5, 7-5-7 and casebooks. This happened to a crew I was on at Gallia Acad. vs Jackson who at the time was being coached by a former Ref. who started yelling thats not correctable. I was the R on the crew and had to take this explanation to Coach OZ, the man said one word and returned to coaching his team who then overcame our error and proceeded to win the game and never mentioned the mistake again. We work one or two games per year at Gallia. Did I mention that Coach OZ is the classiest (sp) man associated with basketball in the Southeast District.

Now: if immediately following a goal (no time out) by team A, A1 grabs the ball and throws it in to A2 who then makes a goal, and it is recognized before the next throw in begins you (a) call a tech. foul on team A (b) assess a delay of game warning (c) cancel the field goal (d) cancel any common foul and any non-flagrant foul againest A2 in the act of shooting and (e) put any time consumed back on the clock. Rule 10-1-8

If this happens as a result of confusion no tech. foul will be called unless the team had received a previous delay of game warning. Rule
4-4-7-3 and 10-1-5d.

SIMPLE HUH.

want another?


The Ghost of Swanker
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by The Ghost of Swanker »

blockcharge : your refereeing wisdom is greatly appreciated on SEOPS.


blockcharge
Freshman Team
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by blockcharge »

do i detect a note of sarcasm! I'm neither the best or worst, smartest or dumbest just enjoy refereeing.


The Ghost of Swanker
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by The Ghost of Swanker »

no sarcasm in that one. is there a copy of the ohsaa basketball rule book on the web?


blockcharge
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by blockcharge »

not that i'm aware. you can order from the National Federation of High School web site and maybe the OHSAA site. The best book to get is Rules by Topic. Its arrangement is a little more understandable plus it has a particular rule , caseplays, and rationales on the same page. Its probably about $10.00. On the web it try the NFHS web site first it will give you some rules. The OHSAA is a member and uses the NFHS books.


FeetballRef
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by FeetballRef »

Rule 7 2009-10 NFHS Basketball Case Page 58
THROW-IN BY WRONG TEAM BY MISTAKE
7.5.2 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded a throw-in near the division line. The
administering official by mistake, puts the ball at B1’s disposal. B1 completes the
throw-in and Team B subsequently scores a goal. RULING: No correction can be
made for the mistake by the official after the throw-in ends.


yellowjacket
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by yellowjacket »

i don't think it is fair to give a tech to a player for making a mistake and dont even correct it if the ref makes one.


blockcharge
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by blockcharge »

yellowjacket - maybe i didn't make it to clear. In the first situation there is no technical but we cannot (by rule) correct the situation. So we need to be alert and get it right everytime.

In the second situation if we feel that confusion caused the incorrect throw-in we do not give the 1st tech. if we feel it is an attempt to deceive and score a basket then we penalize with the 1st tech. the 2nd technical is for delay of game because team already had a delay of game warning. Sometimes in a game you will see a ref, after a basket, blow the whistle go to the table and one teams bench, what he/she is doing is giving a delay of game warning to the team who just made the basket and knocked the ball away after it has cleared the net. this has to be an intentional act designed to delay the throw-in.

There are only 5 mistakes that we make that can be corrected and they have to be corrected in a certain time frame. The 5 correctable errors are:
The failure to award a merited free throw. 2-10-1a
Awarding an unmerited free throw. 2-10-1b
Permitting the wrong player to attempt a free throw. 2-10-1c
Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket. 2-10-1d
Erroneously counting or canceling a score. 2-10-1e

In order to correct any of the officials errors, it must be done no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has started (2-10-2

If the error is counting or canceling a score is made while the clock is running and the ball dead, it must be corrected before the 2nd dead ball.

Which reminds me, the people at the table are a big part of the officiating crew whose job is different than ours but no less important.
Thanks to all of you for what you do.

By the way gahs4ever is one of the best on the book and we do alot of games at alot of diff. schools.

feetsballref - nice! check out 10-1-8 also.


FeetballRef
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by FeetballRef »

Rule 10 2009-10 NFHS Basketball Case Page 80
A SPECIFIC UNSPORTING ACT
10.1.8 SITUATION: Immediately following a goal or free throw by Team A, A1
inbounds the ball to A2 and A2 subsequently throws the ball through A’s basket.
RULING: The following procedure has been adopted to handle this specific situation
if it is recognized before the opponents gain control or before the next
throw-in begins: (a) charge Team A with an unsporting technical foul; (b) assess
a delay-of-game warning for interfering with the ball after a goal; (c) cancel the
field goal; (d) cancel any common foul(s) committed and any non-flagrant foul
against A2 in the act of shooting; and (e) put “consumed” time back on the clock.
COMMENT: If there is no doubt the throw-in was a result of confusion, the entire
procedure would be followed except no unsporting team technical foul would be
charged. A team technical would be assessed if the team had received a previous
delay warning. This procedure shall not be used in any other throw-in situation in
which a mistake allows the wrong team to inbound the ball. (4-47-3; 10-1-5d)
:!:


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colts01
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by colts01 »

OK, I have a question for you.

I was told by an active ref that there is no longer and over the back call. However, it was called in a recent game that I watched and a few other games this season.

Also, with the over & back. Some refs say that new rules state that the entire body(both feet and the ball) must be over the line while others say that if the ball crossed over the line it's an over & back.

Just wondering about the inconsistency and trying to figure out exactly what's going on.


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on a mission
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by on a mission »

It depends on if you have PINROD AND CHUCK! :122245 Sorry guys it is just a little inside joke!It would be a little better if it involved a charge! :lol:


blockcharge
Freshman Team
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by blockcharge »

colts - "Over the back" is not a defined rule in the book. Its just a phrase, most people use, to describe a foul from behind. For a foul to be called there must be contact in which the player who causes the contact gains an advantage. Some times when you have a taller player or a player who can jump higher behind a rebounder they can reach over without causing contact and secure or tip the ball. Without contact there is no foul.

Over and Back is a defined rule. If a player is in control of the ball, holding or dribbling, both feet plus the ball must be in the front court (cross the division line) for there to be front court status. If there is no player control, once the ball crosses the division line it has gained front court status (i.e. a pass). Over and Back is called when the ball has gained front court status and the offense causes the ball to go into the back court and is the first to touch it in the back court.

Hope that helps

Sparky - The inside edge of the division line is used to call "Over and Back".


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my2cents
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by my2cents »

It is my understanding that once front court status has taken place the mid court line becomes the same as an out of bounds line and simply stepping on it is over and back. Is that the case?
Also I have seen refs call over and back when the ball crosses the line in the air and an offensive players jumps from the front court and tip the ball back into play before touching the ground. Wouldn't this be the same as jumping out of bounds to save a ball? I think many refs get this call wrong.
I saw a JV game in which a player was dribbling the ball at half court after a side inbouds. He had one foot in the front court and one foot in the back court and dribble the ball on both sides of the line. He was called for over and back. Isn't that call also wrong?


tossithigh
Freshman Team
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by tossithigh »

my2cents - 1st situation - yes, once front court status is established stepping on the center court line is a violation. 2nd situation as describe - was called incorrectly. Since ball or player never actually touched in the backcourt how can a violation have occurred?? Sometimes what happens is that the player touches the line (backcourt status) as he/she leaps, then saves the ball. 3nd situation (JV game) - also called incorrectly. In a dribbling situation the player must get 3 points (both feet and ball) in front court to actually be in the front court.


blockcharge
Freshman Team
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Re: You be the Ref

Post by blockcharge »

2 cent - good questions

Toss it - Nice!


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