Morgan joining the Twin State League? Other expansion?

[Sportsfan01]

TVC should ask Morgan, Crooksville, and New Lex to join in with them if they are looking to expand.
After Coshocton and RV leave together, it’s only a matter of time until the other teams start looking elsewhere as the smalls do not want to go back to 1 unified league.

Are coshocton and RV looking to leave the MVL?

[1gcfan]

TVC should ask Morgan, Crooksville, and New Lex to join in with them if they are looking to expand.
After Coshocton and RV leave together, it’s only a matter of time until the other teams start looking elsewhere as the smalls do not want to go back to 1 unified league.

Are coshocton and RV looking to leave the MVL?

It's a only a rumor as far as I know. Neither one has had much success in the MVL. Not many will shed a tear. I don't see the MVL breaking up after all these years.

[pioneer19]

TVC should ask Morgan, Crooksville, and New Lex to join in with them if they are looking to expand.
After Coshocton and RV leave together, it’s only a matter of time until the other teams start looking elsewhere as the smalls do not want to go back to 1 unified league.

Are coshocton and RV looking to leave the MVL?

It's a only a rumor as far as I know. Neither one has had much success in the MVL. Not many will shed a tear. I don't see the MVL breaking up after all these years.

What's the rumor? Is the IVC expanding or are they looking west? I agree, the MVL definitely isn't going anywhere, that's just ridiculous. RV and Coshocton leave, there are plenty of schools that would jump to replace them.

[MVLfan]

Are coshocton and RV looking to leave the MVL?

It's a only a rumor as far as I know. Neither one has had much success in the MVL. Not many will shed a tear. I don't see the MVL breaking up after all these years.

What's the rumor? Is the IVC expanding or are they looking west? I agree, the MVL definitely isn't going anywhere, that's just ridiculous. RV and Coshocton leave, there are plenty of schools that would jump to replace them.

No question that there are schools that would jump to join. Cambridge is the obvious one, but who becomes the other that makes sense geographically? Not a coach from any school is going to lose sleep over not having to get on a bus to either of those 2 schools.

[pioneer19]

It's a only a rumor as far as I know. Neither one has had much success in the MVL. Not many will shed a tear. I don't see the MVL breaking up after all these years.

What's the rumor? Is the IVC expanding or are they looking west? I agree, the MVL definitely isn't going anywhere, that's just ridiculous. RV and Coshocton leave, there are plenty of schools that would jump to replace them.

No question that there are schools that would jump to join. Cambridge is the obvious one, but who becomes the other that makes sense geographically? Not a coach from any school is going to lose sleep over not having to get on a bus to either of those 2 schools.

Cambridge is the obvious one and I've long thought Fort Frye would be a great fit for the small school division, however if the current schools think trips to Coshocton and Warsaw are bad, that's probably a non-starter. I could see schools like Buckeye Trail, Licking Valley, Fairfield Union, etc. entertaining the idea. If they were really desperate to keep divisions, Zanesville is right there as well.

What are the talks of Coshocton and River View leaving? To the IVC or are they looking west? I don't see how either school will be any more competitive playing Ridgewood, Garaway, Indian Valley, etc.

[MVLfan]

What's the rumor? Is the IVC expanding or are they looking west? I agree, the MVL definitely isn't going anywhere, that's just ridiculous. RV and Coshocton leave, there are plenty of schools that would jump to replace them.

No question that there are schools that would jump to join. Cambridge is the obvious one, but who becomes the other that makes sense geographically? Not a coach from any school is going to lose sleep over not having to get on a bus to either of those 2 schools.

Cambridge is the obvious one and I've long thought Fort Frye would be a great fit for the small school division, however if the current schools think trips to Coshocton and Warsaw are bad, that's probably a non-starter. I could see schools like Buckeye Trail, Licking Valley, Fairfield Union, etc. entertaining the idea. If they were really desperate to keep divisions, Zanesville is right there as well.

What are the talks of Coshocton and River View leaving? To the IVC or are they looking west? I don't see how either school will be any more competitive playing Ridgewood, Garaway, Indian Valley, etc.

Word at the wigwam was the IVC would be their move. Travel would be a little better, but competition is just as stiff if not more.
Zanesville has already been said that they would not be welcomed due to fan behavior.

[muskiefan11]

No question that there are schools that would jump to join. Cambridge is the obvious one, but who becomes the other that makes sense geographically? Not a coach from any school is going to lose sleep over not having to get on a bus to either of those 2 schools.

Cambridge is the obvious one and I've long thought Fort Frye would be a great fit for the small school division, however if the current schools think trips to Coshocton and Warsaw are bad, that's probably a non-starter. I could see schools like Buckeye Trail, Licking Valley, Fairfield Union, etc. entertaining the idea. If they were really desperate to keep divisions, Zanesville is right there as well.

What are the talks of Coshocton and River View leaving? To the IVC or are they looking west? I don't see how either school will be any more competitive playing Ridgewood, Garaway, Indian Valley, etc.

Word at the wigwam was the IVC would be their move. Travel would be a little better, but competition is just as stiff if not more.
Zanesville has already been said that they would not be welcomed due to fan behavior.

In that case would the IVC be looking into splitting into 3 divisions? Don’t know the exact numbers but aren’t their divisions already fairly big.

[1gcfan]

I don't think the MVL will be able to attract any schools from the LCL even though LV and Lakewood are particularly attractive. Cambridge and Buckeye Trail are obvious choices. I am not familiar with the latter's current league. Fairfield Union is a wild card as they currently play some MVL teams but they are in a pretty good situation in the Mid-State.

[muskiefan11]

I don't think the MVL will be able to attract any schools from the LCL even though LV and Lakewood are particularly attractive. Cambridge and Buckeye Trail are obvious choices. I am not familiar with the latter's current league. Fairfield Union is a wild card as they currently play some MVL teams but they are in a pretty good situation in the Mid-State.

I believe Trail would be a good fit for the small school division. Amazing facilities and good travel (much better than RV and Coshocton). Travel times would overall be better for them, but I imagine the crossover games vs TV, Sheridan, and JG could be a turn off.

Using combined boys and girls enrollments the MVL could look like this:

Tri-Valley 683
Sheridan 534
John Glenn 533
Philo 453
Cambridge 447
Morgan 415

Maysville 413
New Lexington 402
Meadowbrook 376
West M 322
Crooksville 231
Buckeye Trail 225

Not sure how Morgan and/or Cambridge would like this however.

[Play60Football]

I don't think the MVL will be able to attract any schools from the LCL even though LV and Lakewood are particularly attractive. Cambridge and Buckeye Trail are obvious choices. I am not familiar with the latter's current league. Fairfield Union is a wild card as they currently play some MVL teams but they are in a pretty good situation in the Mid-State.

I believe Trail would be a good fit for the small school division. Amazing facilities and good travel (much better than RV and Coshocton). Travel times would overall be better for them, but I imagine the crossover games vs TV, Sheridan, and JG could be a turn off.

Using combined boys and girls enrollments the MVL could look like this:

Tri-Valley 683
Sheridan 534
John Glenn 533
Philo 453
Cambridge 447
Morgan 415

Maysville 413
New Lexington 402
Meadowbrook 376
West M 322
Crooksville 231
Buckeye Trail 225

Not sure how Morgan and/or Cambridge would like this however.

I think IF the MVL needed to add teams because of departures Cambridge would be the obvious choice like others have said. I hadn't considered BT though. But it goes to the fact that if there was a need for new additions they would have to look to add a relatively small school. One of the issues I have heard is the smaller schools and those mandatory crossover games, particularly (maybe exclusively) in football. If schools in the 450 range, as listed above keep getting added I believe that'll push schools like Crooksville and maybe West to look elsewhere.
I see that being the issue with the LCL as well IF they keep adding bigger schools and pushing others into the Small Divisions.
But who knows with any of this, The MVL was pretty reluctant to add those 3 to begin with and if 2 leave in a short time they might just say screw this and stay with what they have.

[BobcatQB]

I don't think the MVL will be able to attract any schools from the LCL even though LV and Lakewood are particularly attractive. Cambridge and Buckeye Trail are obvious choices. I am not familiar with the latter's current league. Fairfield Union is a wild card as they currently play some MVL teams but they are in a pretty good situation in the Mid-State.

I believe Trail would be a good fit for the small school division. Amazing facilities and good travel (much better than RV and Coshocton). Travel times would overall be better for them, but I imagine the crossover games vs TV, Sheridan, and JG could be a turn off.

Using combined boys and girls enrollments the MVL could look like this:

Tri-Valley 683
Sheridan 534
John Glenn 533
Philo 453
Cambridge 447
Morgan 415

Maysville 413
New Lexington 402
Meadowbrook 376
West M 322
Crooksville 231
Buckeye Trail 225

Not sure how Morgan and/or Cambridge would like this however.

I think IF the MVL needed to add teams because of departures Cambridge would be the obvious choice like others have said. I hadn't considered BT though. But it goes to the fact that if there was a need for new additions they would have to look to add a relatively small school. One of the issues I have heard is the smaller schools and those mandatory crossover games, particularly (maybe exclusively) in football. If schools in the 450 range, as listed above keep getting added I believe that'll push schools like Crooksville and maybe West to look elsewhere.
I see that being the issue with the LCL as well IF they keep adding bigger schools and pushing others into the Small Divisions.
But who knows with any of this, The MVL was pretty reluctant to add those 3 to begin with and if 2 leave in a short time they might just say screw this and stay with what they have.

If only 2 leave. Lot of discussions going on.

You are correct with the crossovers being an issue. However, it really shouldn't be an issue with the 3 new schools because they knew about it prior to joining. So, at this point, it really should only be Crooksville that has an issue with it.

[MVLfan]

I don't think the MVL will be able to attract any schools from the LCL even though LV and Lakewood are particularly attractive. Cambridge and Buckeye Trail are obvious choices. I am not familiar with the latter's current league. Fairfield Union is a wild card as they currently play some MVL teams but they are in a pretty good situation in the Mid-State.

I believe Trail would be a good fit for the small school division. Amazing facilities and good travel (much better than RV and Coshocton). Travel times would overall be better for them, but I imagine the crossover games vs TV, Sheridan, and JG could be a turn off.

Using combined boys and girls enrollments the MVL could look like this:

Tri-Valley 683
Sheridan 534
John Glenn 533
Philo 453
Cambridge 447
Morgan 415

Maysville 413
New Lexington 402
Meadowbrook 376
West M 322
Crooksville 231
Buckeye Trail 225

Not sure how Morgan and/or Cambridge would like this however.

I think IF the MVL needed to add teams because of departures Cambridge would be the obvious choice like others have said. I hadn't considered BT though. But it goes to the fact that if there was a need for new additions they would have to look to add a relatively small school. One of the issues I have heard is the smaller schools and those mandatory crossover games, particularly (maybe exclusively) in football. If schools in the 450 range, as listed above keep getting added I believe that'll push schools like Crooksville and maybe West to look elsewhere.
I see that being the issue with the LCL as well IF they keep adding bigger schools and pushing others into the Small Divisions.
But who knows with any of this, The MVL was pretty reluctant to add those 3 to begin with and if 2 leave in a short time they might just say screw this and stay with what they have.

It seems as though when the issue of crossovers was brought up and no discussion was had, that put a sour taste in many of the small schools mouths. I would say if a discussion had been had and no changes were made because of votes, the only school that is actively looking to leave is Crooksville because of the size discrepancy. I don’t think the small schools would be very happy with one league if they were already unhappy with 2 crossover games.

[Play60Football]

With RV and Coshocton exploring to leave i'm sure its really only up to the IVC if they want them. Geographically and culturally and everything you need it makes sense, only a few trips that go over an hour, plus some schools as neighbors. I just think the first round when they were looking the IVC probably didn't want them. Who knows if they do now but if rumors are true it seems possible.

I've said it long ago I think Crooksville is just spinning their wheels. They have no business being in the league anymore, and tradition just doesn't cut it. If they're happy being the way they are more power to them. But if their administration would wise up and do what's best for their kids they should look elsehwere.... Where? who knows what makes sense.

[muskiefan11]

With RV and Coshocton exploring to leave i'm sure its really only up to the IVC if they want them. Geographically and culturally and everything you need it makes sense, only a few trips that go over an hour, plus some schools as neighbors. I just think the first round when they were looking the IVC probably didn't want them. Who knows if they do now but if rumors are true it seems possible.

I've said it long ago I think Crooksville is just spinning their wheels. They have no business being in the league anymore, and tradition just doesn't cut it. If they're happy being the way they are more power to them. But if their administration would wise up and do what's best for their kids they should look elsehwere.... Where? who knows what makes sense.

If they are to leave I would have to think it would be for the TVC Hocking or the MSL Cardinal. Drive times aren’t great in TVC but would be competitive, but fewer league games would allow them to maintain “old rivalries”. MSL has better drive times and would be fairly competitive outside of the University of Harvest Prep.

Travel Times to TVC:
Trimble 28 minutes
Waterford 46 minutes
Federal Hocking 58 minutes
Eastern 1 hour 14 minutes
Belpre 1 hour 15 minutes
Southern 1 hour 22 minutes

Travel Times to MSL Cardinal
Miller 20 minutes
Rosecrans 25 minutes
Fisher Catholic 42 minutes
Millersport 44 minutes
Berne Union 45 minutes
Fairfield Christian Academy 47 minutes
Harvest Prep 1 hour 2 minutes
Grove City Christian 1 hour 16 minutes
Wellington School 1 hour 17 minutes

[Dundas]

With RV and Coshocton exploring to leave i'm sure its really only up to the IVC if they want them. Geographically and culturally and everything you need it makes sense, only a few trips that go over an hour, plus some schools as neighbors. I just think the first round when they were looking the IVC probably didn't want them. Who knows if they do now but if rumors are true it seems possible.

I've said it long ago I think Crooksville is just spinning their wheels. They have no business being in the league anymore, and tradition just doesn't cut it. If they're happy being the way they are more power to them. But if their administration would wise up and do what's best for their kids they should look elsehwere.... Where? who knows what makes sense.

If they are to leave I would have to think it would be for the TVC Hocking or the MSL Cardinal. Drive times aren’t great in TVC but would be competitive, but fewer league games would allow them to maintain “old rivalries”. MSL has better drive times and would be fairly competitive outside of the University of Harvest Prep.

Travel Times to TVC:
Trimble 28 minutes
Waterford 46 minutes
Federal Hocking 58 minutes
Eastern 1 hour 14 minutes
Belpre 1 hour 15 minutes
Southern 1 hour 22 minutes

Travel Times to MSL Cardinal
Miller 20 minutes
Rosecrans 25 minutes
Fisher Catholic 42 minutes
Millersport 44 minutes
Berne Union 45 minutes
Fairfield Christian Academy 47 minutes
Harvest Prep 1 hour 2 minutes
Grove City Christian 1 hour 16 minutes
Wellington School 1 hour 17 minutes

In terms of the TVC, those 3 trips just over an hour wouldn’t be ideal but if Miller came back, there would be two really short trips with them and Trimble.

[Play60Football]

With RV and Coshocton exploring to leave i'm sure its really only up to the IVC if they want them. Geographically and culturally and everything you need it makes sense, only a few trips that go over an hour, plus some schools as neighbors. I just think the first round when they were looking the IVC probably didn't want them. Who knows if they do now but if rumors are true it seems possible.

I've said it long ago I think Crooksville is just spinning their wheels. They have no business being in the league anymore, and tradition just doesn't cut it. If they're happy being the way they are more power to them. But if their administration would wise up and do what's best for their kids they should look elsehwere.... Where? who knows what makes sense.

If they are to leave I would have to think it would be for the TVC Hocking or the MSL Cardinal. Drive times aren’t great in TVC but would be competitive, but fewer league games would allow them to maintain “old rivalries”. MSL has better drive times and would be fairly competitive outside of the University of Harvest Prep.

Travel Times to TVC:
Trimble 28 minutes
Waterford 46 minutes
Federal Hocking 58 minutes
Eastern 1 hour 14 minutes
Belpre 1 hour 15 minutes
Southern 1 hour 22 minutes

Travel Times to MSL Cardinal
Miller 20 minutes
Rosecrans 25 minutes
Fisher Catholic 42 minutes
Millersport 44 minutes
Berne Union 45 minutes
Fairfield Christian Academy 47 minutes
Harvest Prep 1 hour 2 minutes
Grove City Christian 1 hour 16 minutes
Wellington School 1 hour 17 minutes

The hangup with the MSL Cardinal would be Wellington School and GCC... Those 2 being Private Columbus schools that are over an hour away would probably not fit culturally with Crooksville, or Crooksville not fit culturally with them. Both of them looking at each other as a "we have to travel where? vs who? why?" Now from my memory Wellington was basically forced into the Cardinal division before the Ohio broke off and formed the Central Buckeye league. The Cardinal division voted unanimously No on letting them in. The Ohio Division and Buckeye Division voted yes.... even though the Buckeye should have abstained from the vote. This set in motion either the Cardinal or Ohio breaking lose of the Ohio... Ultimately the Ohio choosing to go. (If i have any of that wrong i'm sure someone can correct me, just my memory from reading on other forums).

Harvest Prep was the other elephant (woolly mammoth) in the room! They are not wanted by the MSL in any capacity whatsoever! But their legal team has fought back and they remain. It is my understanding that they are in the Cardinal for Basketball just this season and will go independent next year. Again someone can correct me if i am wrong.

That was a long winded response to say that, If the bulk of the Cardinal (BU, Miller, Rosecrans, FCA, Fisher) would want Crooksville, they play them in almost everything anyways, there are a few schools that could cause hiccups and also be a deterrent for Crooksville Admin. If let's say Wellington was not there GCC could probably be tolerable for them and Crooksville. I believe GCC is bigger than Crooksville and Berne Union is very similar and close in enrollment. Basically for GCC, "you have no where else to go so you will be okay with it."

In my own thought exercises I believe Crooksville fits culturally with the TVC Hocking. Drives would be rough but would you drive 1:30 to be able to compete or continue to drive 20 minutes to Sheridan to have no shot in GBK, BBK, VB, SB, BB..... In football they haven't had a shot vs anyone in the small division anyways so that seems irrelevant lol?? Again to me it comes down to what the Admin wants for their kids.

[Play60Football]

I just looked because i was curious, and it is easily accessible because of Drew Pasteur..... Crooksville hasn't won an MVL Football game since 2020... and maybe only been competitive in 1 or 2 games in that span. Looks like they lost by 3 last year to a 4-6 Meadowbrook team and lost by 1 to a 2-8 Coshocton team in 2022. Every other game has been by 2-3 scores.
*Actually another quick look they have only beaten West and Morgan since 2015!! and those programs blew past them now.

[MVLfan]

With RV and Coshocton exploring to leave i'm sure its really only up to the IVC if they want them. Geographically and culturally and everything you need it makes sense, only a few trips that go over an hour, plus some schools as neighbors. I just think the first round when they were looking the IVC probably didn't want them. Who knows if they do now but if rumors are true it seems possible.

I've said it long ago I think Crooksville is just spinning their wheels. They have no business being in the league anymore, and tradition just doesn't cut it. If they're happy being the way they are more power to them. But if their administration would wise up and do what's best for their kids they should look elsehwere.... Where? who knows what makes sense.

If they are to leave I would have to think it would be for the TVC Hocking or the MSL Cardinal. Drive times aren’t great in TVC but would be competitive, but fewer league games would allow them to maintain “old rivalries”. MSL has better drive times and would be fairly competitive outside of the University of Harvest Prep.

Travel Times to TVC:
Trimble 28 minutes
Waterford 46 minutes
Federal Hocking 58 minutes
Eastern 1 hour 14 minutes
Belpre 1 hour 15 minutes
Southern 1 hour 22 minutes

Travel Times to MSL Cardinal
Miller 20 minutes
Rosecrans 25 minutes
Fisher Catholic 42 minutes
Millersport 44 minutes
Berne Union 45 minutes
Fairfield Christian Academy 47 minutes
Harvest Prep 1 hour 2 minutes
Grove City Christian 1 hour 16 minutes
Wellington School 1 hour 17 minutes

The hangup with the MSL Cardinal would be Wellington School and GCC... Those 2 being Private Columbus schools that are over an hour away would probably not fit culturally with Crooksville, or Crooksville not fit culturally with them. Both of them looking at each other as a "we have to travel where? vs who? why?" Now from my memory Wellington was basically forced into the Cardinal division before the Ohio broke off and formed the Central Buckeye league. The Cardinal division voted unanimously No on letting them in. The Ohio Division and Buckeye Division voted yes.... even though the Buckeye should have abstained from the vote. This set in motion either the Cardinal or Ohio breaking lose of the Ohio... Ultimately the Ohio choosing to go. (If i have any of that wrong i'm sure someone can correct me, just my memory from reading on other forums).

Harvest Prep was the other elephant (woolly mammoth) in the room! They are not wanted by the MSL in any capacity whatsoever! But their legal team has fought back and they remain. It is my understanding that they are in the Cardinal for Basketball just this season and will go independent next year. Again someone can correct me if i am wrong.

That was a long winded response to say that, If the bulk of the Cardinal (BU, Miller, Rosecrans, FCA, Fisher) would want Crooksville, they play them in almost everything anyways, there are a few schools that could cause hiccups and also be a deterrent for Crooksville Admin. If let's say Wellington was not there GCC could probably be tolerable for them and Crooksville. I believe GCC is bigger than Crooksville and Berne Union is very similar and close in enrollment. Basically for GCC, "you have no where else to go so you will be okay with it."

In my own thought exercises I believe Crooksville fits culturally with the TVC Hocking. Drives would be rough but would you drive 1:30 to be able to compete or continue to drive 20 minutes to Sheridan to have no shot in GBK, BBK, VB, SB, BB..... In football they haven't had a shot vs anyone in the small division anyways so that seems irrelevant lol?? Again to me it comes down to what the Admin wants for their kids.

Agreed! Crooksville admin needs to take a hard look at what is best for their current kids, not what they had 10, 15, 20 years ago. They are significantly smaller than every other small school. If you’re doing right by your kids, taking a drive to compete versus a short hop skip and a jump to get waxed is a no brainer. Look at Crooksville’s football schedule from this past year. They won the games in their division or lower, handily. But all the MVL schools that are bigger, aside from Meadowbrook, were not close.
But, until the league opens their eyes and sees that Crooksville has no business playing any of the big schools in any sport, minus maybe Softball, they will be singing the same old song.

[teach1coach2]

MVL talk.

To my knowledge Crooksville is not looking to go anywhere. They were one of the schools that pushed for divisions and it just happened to come during a time when the number of athletes is down. I know a lot of people think (maybe even me) that they are too small for the MVL, but that is their decision and the schools are not going to push them out.

The IVC has 14 teams. The smaller schools have been pushing for a couple more teams and not play cross over games (small schools not wanting to play crossover games breaks up a lot of leagues). So they are exploring. They talked to Coshocton. Never heard they talked to River View but its an obvious assumption. IVC reached out. Not Coshocton.

When the MVL voted to add teams and go to divisions, the 4 smaller schools really wanted it and the larger 5 schools were happy with the league at 9 (or 10) teams. The larger schools went along because the MVL is a family. And all acknowledged the small schools were not winning many football games against the bigger schools since 2010 (before that is was pretty close to 50/50 when a small vs a big). It was agreed to by all 9 schools that in return for 2 divisions, there would be two mandatory cross division games based on school size and rivalries. The larger schools did not want to find more than 3 non-league games (and some of them struggle filling those). So schools wanting to change that is a BIG DEAL.

Part of the problem is some small schools have had complete turnover and no one who was there back then is still around. Then you have Meadowbrook, Coshocton, and River View who were not added to the league until after all this happened.

So it is personal to those who were there in 2018. Didn't help that it was the last item on the agenda and after 2+ hours of other items many were ready to go home. Sadly, one school had discussed the change they wanted with all or most small schools, but not the big schools. Not fair to throw it out to big schools with no hint it was coming. Not the finest day for the MVL as a family. As usual, every story has two sides.

[teach1coach2]

LCL talk
With Intel coming to the western end of the LCL, in 5-10 years there will likely be some D1 LCL schools. Could see the eastern end of the LCL have teams jump on any MVL openings to get with schools of a similar size.

Can someone start an MVL, LCL, IVC talk thread so we can turn this back over to the TVC TSL guys?