Dropping Rivals

EasternDspy
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Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:01 pm

Do you think you should drop a rival just because the rival is good?



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Green 50 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:15 pm

EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:01 pm
Do you think you should drop a rival just because the rival is good?
It depends. I’m sure this is being brought up because most of the former pvc teams are trying to drop fort. Monroe, Caldwell have been declining in enrollment and talent in recent years and frontier has really struggled for awhile . So I would say in these cases yes they probably should drop the fort . Schedule more competitive games and numbers may get back . And if In a few years they get better schedule fort again but to get blown out really doesn’t help them and it really doesn’t help fort either



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:25 pm

You guys act like Fort Frye is some huge school they only had 128 boys.



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Green 50 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:48 pm

In a previous post you talked about how the fort was playing a much bigger school in Meadowbrook, yet Meadowbrook is 39%larger than the fort . The fort is 42%larger than Caldwell as they have 78 high school boys why should they want to play the game especially when there hurting getting kids to come out in the first place ?



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:08 pm

Green 50 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:48 pm
In a previous post you talked about how the fort was playing a much bigger school in Meadowbrook, yet Meadowbrook is 39%larger than the fort . The fort is 42%larger than Caldwell as they have 78 high school boys why should they want to play the game especially when there hurting getting kids to come out in the first place ?
Cmon this is whack. Fort on avg has 30-40 players. Most teams around here are the same 23-35.



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:15 pm

Green 50 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:48 pm
In a previous post you talked about how the fort was playing a much bigger school in Meadowbrook, yet Meadowbrook is 39%larger than the fort . The fort is 42%larger than Caldwell as they have 78 high school boys why should they want to play the game especially when there hurting getting kids to come out in the first place ?
Last year Waterford had more players then Fort Frye. I think Meadowbrook had 66 players. I think Fort currently has 32-34 players.



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:16 pm

If Fort Frye was still bad teams would be begging to play them this has nothing to do with size of school. Fort Frye girls are D4 and they can’t find opponents either.



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by FANOSPORTS » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:18 pm

The gap between rivals and competitiveness has only been widened on the athletic side in a lot of instances by the 1989 implementation of open enrollment in which 74% of Ohio districts now participate in. Who wouldn't want to go to an area with newer bldgs., better academics and sports programs. On the flipside a lot of families don't have the ways, means, demographics or socio-economic conditions to do this even though it's available that's the sad part .
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6y8DCH3fGN


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by FANOSPORTS » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:23 pm

FANOSPORTS wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:18 pm
The gap between rivals and competitiveness has only been widened on the athletic side in a lot of instances by the 1989 implementation of open enrollment in which 74% of Ohio districts now participate in. Who wouldn't want to go to an area with newer bldgs., better academics and sports programs. On the flipside a lot of families don't have the ways, means, demographics or socio-economic conditions to do this even though it's available that's the sad part .
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6y8DCH3fGN
Last edited by FANOSPORTS on Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm

FANOSPORTS wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:18 pm
The gap between rivals and competitiveness has only been widened on the athletic side in a lot of instances by the 1989 implementation of open enrollment in which 74% of Ohio districts now participate in. Who wouldn't want to go to an area with newer bldgs., better academics and sports programs. On the flipside a lot of families don't have the ways, means, demographics or socio-economic conditions to do this even though it's available that's the sad part .
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6y8DCH3fGN
Nobody said a word when Fort Frye was winning 1-2 games a year from 03 until Coach Huck came.



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Kicker. » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:48 pm

I was sad when Piketon dropped Waverly, I’m glad Waverly picked up Athens but would still like them to get Piketon back in the schedule


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Green 50 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:12 pm

EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:18 pm
The gap between rivals and competitiveness has only been widened on the athletic side in a lot of instances by the 1989 implementation of open enrollment in which 74% of Ohio districts now participate in. Who wouldn't want to go to an area with newer bldgs., better academics and sports programs. On the flipside a lot of families don't have the ways, means, demographics or socio-economic conditions to do this even though it's available that's the sad part .
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6y8DCH3fGN
Nobody said a word when Fort Frye was winning 1-2 games a year from 03 until Coach Huck came.
I understand why these teams are dropping the fort but I don’t understand why you are upset ? Fort is at a point like Shadyside where the have nots are not wanting to play you and it doesn’t help your team either



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by enigmaax » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:59 pm

EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm

Nobody said a word when Fort Frye was winning 1-2 games a year from 03 until Coach Huck came.
On one hand, it is kind of crappy for a school like Monroe Central to that, considering Fort Frye (and most of the rest of the PVC) took regular beatings from them for 20-30 years. The difference is, when you are in a league that benefits more than just one sport, there isn’t much you can do about it (unless you pack up everyone and move).

On the other hand, at the high school level, you should always be looking to set your kids up for their maximum success. Beallsville succeeded for years in the PVC DESPITE (not as a result of) their being a ridiculously small school. When that dynamic changed to the point that they could no longer reasonably overcome their disadvantages, it was much better for them to move on. In that example, look how bad they’ve become against lesser competition and imagine them playing some of those old rivals.

Waterford went from a handful of top seasons at 5-5 in their first 30 or so varsity seasons to competing sporadically for TVC titles to now a Regional Final and three (possibly soon to be four) consecutive playoff berths. They still can’t beat Fort Frye and most of this success was pushed along by being competitive to begin with and then learning to win and sustain a winning culture. I really don’t think that would have EVER happened in the PVC.

Athens is another case in point. Everybody talks about how they beat up on smaller schools, but they did make a run to the State Title game despite playing an “easy” schedule. Because winning breeds winning and then you suddenly believe you can win against anyone (yes, talent and coaching both make a big difference too).

Some programs reach a point where they are better off scheduling up. Fort Frye is in a position where winning a crappy conference or beating up bad small schools doesn’t really prove anything. They are on a whole different level and their potential big game atmospheres gives their kids an experience that lots of schools (especially in this area) will never be a part of. I know you don’t represent everyone at FF, but it sounds pretty silly to whine about crappy downward-trending programs not playing you when the obvious option is to go schedule challenging schools and see how good you really are. I’ve said it before - Fort Frye is set up for probably at least the next 20 years to be annual playoff participants and to make some serious runs at State titles. They don’t need Caldwells and Frontiers on their schedule and they’d do just fine taking on bigger schools (mediocre to good) and top-notch small schools (Trimble, as an example). Their AD has obviously subscribed to this same philosophy, just enjoy the success.



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Raider6309 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:12 pm

Im pretty sure FF’s rival is Waterford. They are still playing



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by FANOSPORTS » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:13 pm

Green 50 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:12 pm
EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm
FANOSPORTS wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:18 pm
The gap between rivals and competitiveness has only been widened on the athletic side in a lot of instances by the 1989 implementation of open enrollment in which 74% of Ohio districts now participate in. Who wouldn't want to go to an area with newer bldgs., better academics and sports programs. On the flipside a lot of families don't have the ways, means, demographics or socio-economic conditions to do this even though it's available that's the sad part .
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 6y8DCH3fGN
Nobody said a word when Fort Frye was winning 1-2 games a year from 03 until Coach Huck came.
I understand why these teams are dropping the fort but I don’t understand why you are upset ? Fort is at a point like Shadyside where the have nots are not wanting to play you and it doesn’t help your team either
No, I'm not upset :D just throwing this out there. SEO has probably been affected more by this than anyone other than the large cities where a lot of kids are going to private, parochial or suburban schools now instead of staying home.


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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Green 50 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:24 pm

enigmaax wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:59 pm
EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:24 pm

Nobody said a word when Fort Frye was winning 1-2 games a year from 03 until Coach Huck came.
On one hand, it is kind of crappy for a school like Monroe Central to that, considering Fort Frye (and most of the rest of the PVC) took regular beatings from them for 20-30 years. The difference is, when you are in a league that benefits more than just one sport, there isn’t much you can do about it (unless you pack up everyone and move).

On the other hand, at the high school level, you should always be looking to set your kids up for their maximum success. Beallsville succeeded for years in the PVC DESPITE (not as a result of) their being a ridiculously small school. When that dynamic changed to the point that they could no longer reasonably overcome their disadvantages, it was much better for them to move on. In that example, look how bad they’ve become against lesser competition and imagine them playing some of those old rivals.

Waterford went from a handful of top seasons at 5-5 in their first 30 or so varsity seasons to competing sporadically for TVC titles to now a Regional Final and three (possibly soon to be four) consecutive playoff berths. They still can’t beat Fort Frye and most of this success was pushed along by being competitive to begin with and then learning to win and sustain a winning culture. I really don’t think that would have EVER happened in the PVC.

Athens is another case in point. Everybody talks about how they beat up on smaller schools, but they did make a run to the State Title game despite playing an “easy” schedule. Because winning breeds winning and then you suddenly believe you can win against anyone (yes, talent and coaching both make a big difference too).

Some programs reach a point where they are better off scheduling up. Fort Frye is in a position where winning a crappy conference or beating up bad small schools doesn’t really prove anything. They are on a whole different level and their potential big game atmospheres gives their kids an experience that lots of schools (especially in this area) will never be a part of. I know you don’t represent everyone at FF, but it sounds pretty silly to whine about crappy downward-trending programs not playing you when the obvious option is to go schedule challenging schools and see how good you really are. I’ve said it before - Fort Frye is set up for probably at least the next 20 years to be annual playoff participants and to make some serious runs at State titles. They don’t need Caldwells and Frontiers on their schedule and they’d do just fine taking on bigger schools (mediocre to good) and top-notch small schools (Trimble, as an example). Their AD has obviously subscribed to this same philosophy, just enjoy the success.
Very good post. In the 80s Waterford was lucky to get 20kids to play football and there was more boys back then , now over half the boys came out for football this year this would not have happened if we would have stayed in the pvc kids then and now do not want to put the kinda of time and effort in just to get beat 30 points a game year in and year out



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:35 pm

I helped look for teams to schedule last year for this year so many teams told us no. I do agree playing up is def for the better if we can get bigger teams to play us.



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Green 50 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:39 pm

EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:35 pm
I helped look for teams to schedule last year for this year so many teams told us no. I do agree playing up is def for the better if we can get bigger teams to play us.
Guessing same reason shady went to Vinton county and wheeling central came to Beverly probably going to have to travel further



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by Raider6309 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:04 pm

EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:35 pm
I helped look for teams to schedule last year for this year so many teams told us no. I do agree playing up is def for the better if we can get bigger teams to play us.
Tell your AD to join the TVC Ohio. Man up and join



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Re: Dropping Rivals

Post by EasternDspy » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:09 pm

Raider6309 wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:04 pm
EasternDspy wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:35 pm
I helped look for teams to schedule last year for this year so many teams told us no. I do agree playing up is def for the better if we can get bigger teams to play us.
Tell your AD to join the TVC Ohio. Man up and join
I think they’d love that because of mandatory scheduling.



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