Burg vs. Portsmouth Future??

[wobycat]

interesting take from Wheelersburg fans on Portsmouth dropping Wheelersburg. This coming from a fan base who’s “school” dodged Ironton for two decades in the 70’s and 80’s.

Burg avoided Portsmouth too for the most part. The reason was Portsmouth and ironton were both bigger schools compared to burg at the time. Currently they are not. There should be no reason why Portsmouth drop this game.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

[quote=Trojan_FB_Alum post_id=<a href="tel:1719192">1719192</a> time=<a href="tel:1543537693">1543537693</a> user_id=5538]
Very much agree, and these are results of lack wealth. Or is symptom of it.
Just more examples of the it not being a level playing field for all.

The playing field is the same for everyone it's what you make out of it is what counts community coaches teachers parents etc... excuses in my book are just laziness!
[/quote]


The playing field is obviously not level I have clearly given statistics that prove that. I’m sure it is hard for a district like Burg to see that though.

These are not excuses, these are simply why a 7-3 record at a place like Portsmouth is a greater accomplishment then it is at a place like burg, because they have an easier road not having to fight against poverty and disability that other districts do.

These are not excuses

[Mad-Dogg]

promise you this, If this ever happens, we will have a high level of security on our sidelines

[allamericanironman]

The 2016 census state the median incomes as
Portsmouth $27,769
Ironton $34,140
Wheelersburg $58,980

Lol if Delmas lived in Portsmouth or Aruntun. That would bump both! What’s up big D!

[packers80]

Excuses

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Excuses

Superiority complex.


I don’t expect districts that are affluent to understand, and that’s fine but these are not excuses these are facts that I have presented the statistical information with.

While competitive balance has leveled the field some by removing primarily private schools that have a competition advantage from the playing field. It has allowed the public affluent districts to gain a greater advantage by picking and choosing who they accept and who they don’t why insuring that their enrollment numbers still fall within the division they want to be in. I’ve hear several people say they expect Burg to go to D4 next year, I will however believe it when I see it, I bet some how they manage to stay just under the D 4 cut.

As discussed earlier though this isn’t about athletics, state testing paints an inaccurate picture of the education being offered because poverty and disabilities are not taken into consideration ( IEPs allow for acommendations for some students such as longer test times however very few are actually excused from testing) giving parents that live in those districts a fause assumption that their child would be getting a better education somewhere else because the affluent districts are excepting primarily affluent and non disabled applicants in open enrollment which in turn makes their district look better and others look worse as percentages shift.
This however is not true, I can not speak for all districts but Portsmouth continually has their top kids preforme above and beyond. While PHS also offers Dual Credit course where student earn both high school credit and college credit for courses without having to attend post secondary classes, or pass an advanced plasment test. As of my knowledge Burgs only options to gain college credit is AP, or post secondary, forcing them to test out, or removing high school experiences by having them go to the college during the school day.

Anyone been down to winter fest? You can thank PHS students and staff for the beautiful murals in the windows as they got out supported the community and the arts at the same time.

However these aspects are not included in state test results or Friday night scores so people get a negitive idea about the education system. This results in transferrs to the districts that preform well on test, and those transfers primarily being the more affluent in the district who would have performed just as well in their original district resulting in the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. It is sad this is the case, because in the majority of cases the original district offers the same opportunities and in many cases more then the district they are transferring too.

[packers80]

More excuses. Game is played on the field. No superiority complex. Portsmouth won't play.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Lol ok great argument.

Answer me this, is it easier to succeed with more viable options to put on that field? The OHSAA seems to think so since we have 7 division.

If you answer anything besides yes then you are just wrong, this is the reason D5 burg, as good as they are can’t compete against D1 schools.

Lastly I have laid out why poverty and disability affect the number of “viable” boys you can field a team with and put on the field.

So yes the game is played on the field but that field is not always equal.

It’s fine if you disagree please show me your statstics and try to change my mind, if not continue to make random statements with nothing to support them from atop your pedestal you have placed yourself on.

[wobycat]

Lol ok great argument.

Answer me this, is it easier to succeed with more viable options to put on that field? The OHSAA seems to think so since we have 7 division.

If you answer anything besides yes then you are just wrong, this is the reason D5 burg, as good as they are can’t compete against D1 schools.

Lastly I have laid out why poverty and disability affect the number of “viable” boys you can field a team with and put on the field.

So yes the game is played on the field but that field is not always equal.

It’s fine if you disagree please show me your statstics and try to change my mind, if not continue to make random statements with nothing to support them from atop your pedestal you have placed yourself on.

Your field is really nice. Your kids aren’t that poor. Being on assistance doesn’t have anything to do with throwing a football around. Portsmouth can have success. Stop belly aching over it.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Again talking about far more then football.

And no it doesn’t directly affect, however again I have shown how it does effect losing kids, how some kids can’t participate.

It doesn’t mean we can’t succeed, as we did just this year. Again I’m sure it’s hard to see from the other perspective. It means we have far more to over come then others.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

As for the Portsmouth kids aren’t that poor comment.

This is how poor Portsmouth is. https://www.fns.usda.gov/school-meals/c ... -provision

The Community Eligibility Provision (CEP) is a non-pricing meal service option for schools and school districts in low-income areas. CEP allows the nation’s highest poverty schools and districts to serve breakfast and lunch at no cost to all enrolled students without collecting household applications. Instead, schools that adopt CEP are reimbursed using a formula based on the percentage of students categorically eligible for free meals based on their participation in other specific means-tested programs, such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF).

[wobycat]

As for the Portsmouth kids aren’t that poor comment.

This is how poor Portsmouth is. https://www.fns.usda.gov/school-meals/c ... -provision

The Community Eligibility Provision (CEP) is a non-pricing meal service option for schools and school districts in low-income areas. CEP allows the nation’s highest poverty schools and districts to serve breakfast and lunch at no cost to all enrolled students without collecting household applications. Instead, schools that adopt CEP are reimbursed using a formula based on the percentage of students categorically eligible for free meals based on their participation in other specific means-tested programs, such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) and Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF).

There are two different kinds of poor. One is I have no food, no shelter, no water, poor, and then there’s I don’t have many choices poor. Portsmouth probably has more kids on the i don’t have many choices poor category than most schools but I sincerely doubt that there’s any kids roaming the hall that can’t meet their basic needs. Putting on some football gear and hitching a ride to practice don’t really affect the choice of food you can eat. I will agree that they may not get the support they would need to make their work ethic better but having a free lunch has nothing to do with blocking and tackling.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

The information I posted about the CEPs states it is for the “nation’s highest poverty schools”.
Poverty level for a family of 4 in the US is $25,100.
Scioto county average income is $37,936
Portsmouth’s average income is $27,769
Wheelersburg s average income is $50,264


According to the Steven A Hunter hope fund, “Almost 1 in 3 children in Scioto, Pike, & Adams Counties are food insecure”. Seems to reason that the school with the largest number of free lunch, would have the most that are food insecure, while that with the highest wealth would have the least.
Feel free to not believe that there are children out there going hungry if you want the Hunter foundation serves over 1300 kids with Steve’s power packs so they have food to eat at home.

So again this means that yes kids don’t have the ability to participate.

Answer me this, are you more likely to be able to find 11 solid football players to field a team if you have a larger viable pool to pull from?

[wobycat]

How many played for Portsmouth this year 9-12?

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

PHS had about 45

Burg had 76

So since you asked let’s do a little math. Let’s assume that the grades are pretty equally distributed. You primarily want to start Jr and Sr if at all possible just for the fact that they have had 2 years to mature 2 more years in weight room over Freshmen and sophomores. So if that’s the case PHS would have about 23 Jr and Sr, versus 38 jr and Sr for Burg.

Hmmm starting to see the advantage yet? That’s assuming that all these guys are viable options. Are they?
Sure looks easier to find 22 on each side for burg then it does PHS. Then what about platoons, backups, with Burgs numbers idk about you but I’d much rather rely on SR and JR there too burg would have 16 options left PHS 2. Hmmmm

According to the OHSAA
PHS enrollment is 171
Burgs enrollment is 175
Pretty similar but 30 more boys out to play football ??? Hmmmm how can this be???

I’m sure you will tell me it’s because of Burgs superior community superior coaches and superior program in general.
However it’s just not the case.


Even when Portsmouth was the dominant program locally, in the early 2000s teams were around 45-55 boys, PHS had a larger enrollment then too. Hmmm wonder what happened?

[ManitouDan2]

Where's the dead horse being beaten icon when you need it ? LOL

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Here’s some more dead horse for you.
Guess these people are wrong too huh?




Painesville Curriculum Coordinator Wendy Camper said she believes poverty is more of a factor than language for students in Painesville Schools.

Painesville Director of Student Services Chris Young elaborated on why poverty is a factor for students’ academic success.

“When basic needs aren’t met — things like health care, socioemotional issues, nutrition and stable housing — you have to address those issues so kids are in a ready place to learn,” Young said.

Camper says educators must meet students where they are to develop a program to fit their needs.

“Often, resources that middle class and upper-middle class families take for granted are simply not available to students from lower socio-economic backgrounds,” Euclid Schools Superintendent Charles Smialek said. “Students face many different challenges that affect their ability to succeed. Some face a daily struggle to simply stay warm, safe, and dry. Others have issues within their family structures or personal lives that distract them from focusing on a successful vision for their futures.”



https://www.news-herald.com/news/ohio/l ... b1a5c.html

[wobycat]

PHS had about 45

Burg had 76

So since you asked let’s do a little math. Let’s assume that the grades are pretty equally distributed. You primarily want to start Jr and Sr if at all possible just for the fact that they have had 2 years to mature 2 more years in weight room over Freshmen and sophomores. So if that’s the case PHS would have about 23 Jr and Sr, versus 38 jr and Sr for Burg.

Hmmm starting to see the advantage yet? That’s assuming that all these guys are viable options. Are they?
Sure looks easier to find 22 on each side for burg then it does PHS. Then what about platoons, backups, with Burgs numbers idk about you but I’d much rather rely on SR and JR there too burg would have 16 options left PHS 2. Hmmmm

According to the OHSAA
PHS enrollment is 171
Burgs enrollment is 175
Pretty similar but 30 more boys out to play football ??? Hmmmm how can this be???

I’m sure you will tell me it’s because of Burgs superior community superior coaches and superior program in general.
However it’s just not the case.


Even when Portsmouth was the dominant program locally, in the early 2000s teams were around 45-55 boys, PHS had a larger enrollment then too. Hmmm wonder what happened?

You’ve proved my point that your whole intent was to crap straight on burgs success, except disguised as woe is the poor district of Portsmouth. You’ve clearly got it in your head that every burg player is privileged and that’s the reason for their success, and not the work ethic. I’m done with your conversation, should’ve been done with it earlier when other posters proved that a poorer district doesn’t necessarily mean doom and gloom and there can still be success. You have just made this an attempt on demeaning the accomplishments of Wheelersburg by comparing free lunches.

[Trojan_FB_Alum]

Where did I say this was Burgs fault? Or as you put it crap on their success? If anyone is at fault it is the state for painting inaccurate portraits of districts.
I did point out how the playing field isn’t level through multiple statistics and articles quoting educational professionals regarding both poverty and IEPs. Didn’t “crap” on anyone though.

Neither is this a woe is Portsmouth, as I highlighted being proud of our recent 7-3 season, and stating that a 7-3 season for a district like Portsmouth is a larger accomplishment then it is for more affluent districts. I also highlighted community involvement, the arts, as well as academic offerings only available at PHS.

Thanks for playing though, I can see I have upset you, because you were bothered by data that I presented and had none to support your view point.

If you choose to stick to being done with this conversation I totally understand because this too has turned into an uneven playing field since I keep supplying statistics and articles, and you seem to have nothing to support yours.

[Westfan]

Demographics was gonna be a factor in Competitive Balance. It is a huge factor. Working 2 parent homes will produce kids with better work ethics. Look no further than the MAC schools.

As has been said, 40% of Wheelersburg's football team are out of district players. If a parent will take the commitment to drive their kid to school instead of putting them on the bus, odds are they care more and will be more involved in their life. This is why Wheelersburgs participation rate is higher. More kids play, more athletes to pick from. Also more can concentrate on one sport and still have good athletes in all sports. Theirs strength in numbers