Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Orange and Brown » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:30 pm

Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:28 pm
Orange and Brown wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:27 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:24 pm


Most years Rv would finish in the top half of the Hocking but I haven’t seen anything over the last 25 years that would lead me to believe they would dominate. The TVC could balance itself out more if you take the best hocking schools and the worst Ohio (historically) and created a third division. I think that would be the best case scenario for competitiveness. Add a couple bigger schools and a couple mid sized schools, split it up and call it a day for the next 50 years.
It could work but not many of the schools want a 3rd division.
I know but I can give 1000 reasons as to why it would improve the TVC. We need 3 divisions.
I get it, we have had a hundred conversations about it and I can't argue with any of your reasons.


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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:31 pm

Athens
Gallia
Jackson
Warren
Logan
Marietta

Meigs
Ny
VC
Wellston
Rv
Trimble
Alex
FF

Belpre
Waterford
Miller
Eastern
Southern
SG
Wahama
Fed hock

Case closed.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Raider6309 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 pm

Make it happen Dundas



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:34 pm

Raider6309 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Make it happen Dundas
I wish I could raider! That way Athens can have a 7-3 year and have a chance at the playoffs. Scheduling would be simple. Divisions would be more competitive. Still have natural rivals. Idk what the hurdle is but come on, you can’t argue with this over what we currently have. It’s the same 4-5 teams year in and year out in almost every sport. Let’s make the TVC great again!



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by 93Bulldog » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:45 pm

Back to 3 division talk again, huh?

You guys are like watching a dog chase it's tail for hours. Start a conversation about Athens - complain about size - move to TVC reallignment - repeat.

Lol



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:47 pm

93Bulldog wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:45 pm
Back to 3 division talk again, huh?

You guys are like watching a dog chase it's tail for hours. Start a conversation about Athens - complain about size - move to TVC reallignment - repeat.

Lol

Gotta talk about something Dog! Tell me this isn’t a good idea though.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by enigmaax » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 pm

Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:34 pm
Raider6309 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Make it happen Dundas
I wish I could raider! That way Athens can have a 7-3 year and have a chance at the playoffs. Scheduling would be simple. Divisions would be more competitive. Still have natural rivals. Idk what the hurdle is but come on, you can’t argue with this over what we currently have. It’s the same 4-5 teams year in and year out in almost every sport. Let’s make the TVC great again!
The TVC has had more success overall in the last 5 years than ever in its history. I get that a few random people are mad at Athens for winning a lot, but that doesn’t mean the league has issues. The Hocking is a near perfect situation for those schools. Why would any of them want to mess that up AND give away the ability to rule a majority vote on any league issues to appease some big schools who couldn’t make it work for themselves previously?

So I will say it, it is just as terrible an idea as it has been the other 3747 times someone has brought it up.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:00 pm

enigmaax wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:34 pm
Raider6309 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Make it happen Dundas
I wish I could raider! That way Athens can have a 7-3 year and have a chance at the playoffs. Scheduling would be simple. Divisions would be more competitive. Still have natural rivals. Idk what the hurdle is but come on, you can’t argue with this over what we currently have. It’s the same 4-5 teams year in and year out in almost every sport. Let’s make the TVC great again!
The TVC has had more success overall in the last 5 years than ever in its history. I get that a few random people are mad at Athens for winning a lot, but that doesn’t mean the league has issues. The Hocking is a near perfect situation for those schools. Why would any of them want to mess that up AND give away the ability to rule a majority vote on any league issues to appease some big schools who couldn’t make it work for themselves previously?

So I will say it, it is just as terrible an idea as it has been the other 3747 times someone has brought it up.
I’m not mad at Athens. Lol NY was dominate before Athens came along and no one talked about expansion. Trimble the same for the hocking. I’m talking about making a more competitive conference across the board. The hocking likes 9 teams. The setup would be two 8 team divisions. Nearly the same but with a better schedule situation. The big division would be 6 which would allow for scheduleing up or down to alleviate the Athens issue of going 9-1 and missing the playoffs which this will be the second year that has happened. And lastly, the divisions as I have laid out would be more competitive top to bottom, which would bring more people to the games, more money, more coverage and more meaningful games. You’d still have the natural rivals and playoff points. I just don’t know what the big deal is?



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Poo Bear » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:04 pm

enigmaax wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:34 pm
Raider6309 wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 pm
Make it happen Dundas
I wish I could raider! That way Athens can have a 7-3 year and have a chance at the playoffs. Scheduling would be simple. Divisions would be more competitive. Still have natural rivals. Idk what the hurdle is but come on, you can’t argue with this over what we currently have. It’s the same 4-5 teams year in and year out in almost every sport. Let’s make the TVC great again!
The TVC has had more success overall in the last 5 years than ever in its history. I get that a few random people are mad at Athens for winning a lot, but that doesn’t mean the league has issues. The Hocking is a near perfect situation for those schools. Why would any of them want to mess that up AND give away the ability to rule a majority vote on any league issues to appease some big schools who couldn’t make it work for themselves previously?

So I will say it, it is just as terrible an idea as it has been the other 3747 times someone has brought it up.
It’s just midweek banter Man relax , speaking as a Jackson poster I wouldn’t trade the FAC for any league



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Older bird » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 pm

2 div is working. No change needed.
Case closed



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:11 pm

Older bird wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:05 pm
2 div is working. No change needed.
Case closed
The TVC will wind up with teams breaking away if Trimble, Athens , and NY continue to dominate football. This scenario allows the conference to be more competitive across the board and would keep teams from leaving in the future. Wait and see.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Happy McGavin » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:15 pm

I'd love to see three divisions of the TVC. More equally balanced teams equals more quality games


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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by 93Bulldog » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:16 pm

NY & Trimble have been dominant since day 1
Nobody wanted to or wants to break away
In fact, more teams/schools have wanted to join
Duh



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:24 pm

93Bulldog wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:16 pm
NY & Trimble have been dominant since day 1
Nobody wanted to or wants to break away
In fact, more teams/schools have wanted to join
Duh
Since the TVC split into 2 divisions yes I agree. Before that it was a little more balanced.

Let me tell you all a little secret about why the TVC decided to split into two divisions back in the early 90’s. VC, NY, Meigs and Belpre took turns from the mid 80’s to 1992 dominating the TVC almost every year. The issue was playoffs. Very rarely did a team have enough points generated to make it. Yes they only took 4 teams. Yes some did make it. But the tipping point was when VC went 10-0 in 1991 and had to watch teams in the playoffs that year that weren’t as good. Thus the TVC decided to split to allow the bigger schools like VC, Ny, Meigs and Blepre (all D3 at the time) a chance to schedule teams that would help them get in the postseason. It also helped schools like Alex, Miller, Fed Hock be able to compete for championships and playoffs in their own right as the conference was MORE BALANCED COMPETITIVELY. Get my drift?? The same thing needs to happen again as we have outgrown the two division format. You think had Fed and Miller been playing in the unified TVC from 1993 through today that they wouldn’t have left the conference?? Your crazy to think that they would’ve stayed. It’s only a matter of time TVC.... make the move.
Last edited by Dundas on Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Raider6309 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:25 pm

We are getting close to 10,000 post about Athens in The TVC



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by enigmaax » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:28 pm

Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:00 pm
enigmaax wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:34 pm


I wish I could raider! That way Athens can have a 7-3 year and have a chance at the playoffs. Scheduling would be simple. Divisions would be more competitive. Still have natural rivals. Idk what the hurdle is but come on, you can’t argue with this over what we currently have. It’s the same 4-5 teams year in and year out in almost every sport. Let’s make the TVC great again!
The TVC has had more success overall in the last 5 years than ever in its history. I get that a few random people are mad at Athens for winning a lot, but that doesn’t mean the league has issues. The Hocking is a near perfect situation for those schools. Why would any of them want to mess that up AND give away the ability to rule a majority vote on any league issues to appease some big schools who couldn’t make it work for themselves previously?

So I will say it, it is just as terrible an idea as it has been the other 3747 times someone has brought it up.
I’m not mad at Athens. Lol NY was dominate before Athens came along and no one talked about expansion. Trimble the same for the hocking. I’m talking about making a more competitive conference across the board. The hocking likes 9 teams. The setup would be two 8 team divisions. Nearly the same but with a better schedule situation. The big division would be 6 which would allow for scheduleing up or down to alleviate the Athens issue of going 9-1 and missing the playoffs which this will be the second year that has happened. And lastly, the divisions as I have laid out would be more competitive top to bottom, which would bring more people to the games, more money, more coverage and more meaningful games. You’d still have the natural rivals and playoff points. I just don’t know what the big deal is?
I’ll ask again, why would 9 small schools who can collectively look out for themselves relinquish the ability to self-preserve to some schools who couldn’t manage to keep 5 of themselves together?

The trade off is getting rid of Trimble? Despite Trimble’s success, six of the nine Hocking schools have made the playoffs and every single one has had a winning season under the current format. Five years ago, message board folks wanted to ditch Wahama over their dominance; now look at them. Waterford is enjoying unorecedented success, I guarantee under Mike DeVol Belpre is going to compete for conference titles, and other schools follow the normal ups and downs of Division 7 football. You are creating solutions for problems that don’t exist.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm

Fed hock hasn’t had a winning season since Wahama and south gallia have joined. There have been playoff success for sure but the reason is the 9 divisional games. I’m not taking that away with 3 divisions. Write up a new by law at the expansion that gives each division its own power to add or make decisions. It honestly should already be that way. Miller shouldn’t be able to decide the fate of the Ohio and vice versa. Maybe it’s already too late for the TVC. Maybe splitting up is inevitable. Again, I have said many, many times, the TVC was the best it had ever been when there were two divisions of 6. One division of 9 was too big so they decided to add and split for competitive reasons. We’re in the same boat now again.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Rear View Mirror » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:36 pm

You hear that 93Bulldog?????? These guys are beating that dead horse yet again!!!!!! 1) the TVC Hocking is a playoff point bonanza for the top three teams. Especially in years that teams when most of their non league games. Why would any of those teams want to changed anything? 2) like it or hate it, I never see a post from a buckeye fan complaining about the size of Athens. They line up and play them with no excuses whatsoever. Probably the only reason why they are the only team with any success against them. Instead of complaining about Athens....MAKE YOUR PROGRAMS BETTER!!!!!!!!!!! Side note: Being a fan of youth football. I can tell you that Athens has great people building that program from the ground level. They are competitive year in and year out. They have earned those wins your talking about. Not because of their size, but because of the hard work of youth league coaches dedicating their time, prominent members of community donating funds for facilities, and coaches who work the weight room as hard as anybody in the area. Hence, Athens is outworking you period!! Quit looking for handouts and easy wins and make your programs better. Athens has made their program better. Some of you might not like their decision to join the TVC, but let's face it. It has made the TVC better. NY working to beat Athens last year helped them prepare for a trip to final four. Trimble having to beat an awesome Wahama team in 2013 helped them get to the state final. Instead of whining about the challenge Athens brings, embrace it. NY does, and shows every week on the field.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Kicker. » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 pm

Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 pm
Poo Bear wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:11 pm
Don’t even argue with Raider , he’s a clown. He doesn’t represent Bulldog nation. Here’s an idea, Trimble to the TVC Ohio , maybe river valley down to the hocking ??
Probably better competitive wise for the conference. Similar to how Northwest is playing in the small school soc compared to valley in the big. I still think oak hill to the Ohio would be good.

I personally don't think oak hill will leave the SOC anytime soon they dominated the SOC I for a good bit and now can come compete with the schools more relative to their size


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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:44 pm

Kicker. wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 pm
Poo Bear wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:11 pm
Don’t even argue with Raider , he’s a clown. He doesn’t represent Bulldog nation. Here’s an idea, Trimble to the TVC Ohio , maybe river valley down to the hocking ??
Probably better competitive wise for the conference. Similar to how Northwest is playing in the small school soc compared to valley in the big. I still think oak hill to the Ohio would be good.

I personally don't think oak hill will leave the SOC anytime soon they dominated the SOC I for a good bit and now can come compete with the schools more relative to their size
Oak Hill got beat 39-0 to the team that will more than likely finish 4th in the SOC 2 this year. I don’t think Oak Hill will be very competitive. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just think the TVC would result in more success for the Oaks.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Kicker. » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:48 pm

Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:44 pm
Kicker. wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 pm


Probably better competitive wise for the conference. Similar to how Northwest is playing in the small school soc compared to valley in the big. I still think oak hill to the Ohio would be good.

I personally don't think oak hill will leave the SOC anytime soon they dominated the SOC I for a good bit and now can come compete with the schools more relative to their size
Oak Hill got beat 39-0 to the team that will more than likely finish 4th in the SOC 2 this year. I don’t think Oak Hill will be very competitive. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just think the TVC would result in more success for the Oaks.

I can see the point to be made for them to join the TVC I just personally don't see them leaving


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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by greygoose » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:50 pm

Kicker. wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 pm
Poo Bear wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:11 pm
Don’t even argue with Raider , he’s a clown. He doesn’t represent Bulldog nation. Here’s an idea, Trimble to the TVC Ohio , maybe river valley down to the hocking ??
Probably better competitive wise for the conference. Similar to how Northwest is playing in the small school soc compared to valley in the big. I still think oak hill to the Ohio would be good.

I personally don't think oak hill will leave the SOC anytime soon they dominated the SOC I for a good bit and now can come compete with the schools more relative to their size
This wouldn't shock me at all, they're located within decent drive of TVC teams.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Kicker. » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:52 pm

greygoose wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:50 pm
Kicker. wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 pm
Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:14 pm


Probably better competitive wise for the conference. Similar to how Northwest is playing in the small school soc compared to valley in the big. I still think oak hill to the Ohio would be good.

I personally don't think oak hill will leave the SOC anytime soon they dominated the SOC I for a good bit and now can come compete with the schools more relative to their size
This wouldn't shock me at all, they're located within decent drive of TVC teams.

That's what leads me to believe they could but they are in the SOC II for every other sport and now football will be


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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by Dundas » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:05 pm

Kicker. wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:52 pm
greygoose wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:50 pm
Kicker. wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 pm



I personally don't think oak hill will leave the SOC anytime soon they dominated the SOC I for a good bit and now can come compete with the schools more relative to their size
This wouldn't shock me at all, they're located within decent drive of TVC teams.

That's what leads me to believe they could but they are in the SOC II for every other sport and now football will be
I would love to have oak hill as a member. Great facilities, dive isn’t bad at all and they have great programs that would fit right in with the current TVC teams. Plus we have 7 Ohio schools which is a nightmare for scheduling. I think there are benefits for both sides.



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Re: Athens in the TVC: The Numbers

Post by enigmaax » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:45 pm

Dundas wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 pm
Fed hock hasn’t had a winning season since Wahama and south gallia have joined. There have been playoff success for sure but the reason is the 9 divisional games. I’m not taking that away with 3 divisions. Write up a new by law at the expansion that gives each division its own power to add or make decisions. It honestly should already be that way. Miller shouldn’t be able to decide the fate of the Ohio and vice versa. Maybe it’s already too late for the TVC. Maybe splitting up is inevitable. Again, I have said many, many times, the TVC was the best it had ever been when there were two divisions of 6. One division of 9 was too big so they decided to add and split for competitive reasons. We’re in the same boat now again.
Fed Hock was 6-4 in 2012. I could be wrong, but I think Wahama & South Gallia were in by then?

Anyway, there was a bigger variety in school sizes and competitiveness when that previous split happened. Playoffs weren’t even realistic for most schools and a school like Miller was going to have a difficult time avoiding the basement regularly. Lots of things make the situations completely different.

Schools like Waterford, Southern, & Miller that don’t exactly have a rich history can comoete just fine in the years that they have those generational classes. And when they do, they’ll make the playoffs. Start cutting back games and a team like Waterford can just as easily go back to having thier best classes go 5-5 (Waterford’s first ever winning season was 5-6 years after they joined the TVC) while getting thumped by non-TVC teams. Simply removing Trimble is an overreaction - like I said, not long ago it was Wahama everyone was worried about. Some program will ALWAYS step into that role and eventually cycle out.

Monroe Central dominated the PVC for three decades, but Caldwell and Beallsville (heck even Shenandoah) still had their share of really good (sometimes playoff teams) and now it seems like Fort Frye has been the best program forever and a new fan would see MC as one of the worst programs around. None of those other schools would have been significantly better by just booting MC from the conference and for most, it was a HUGE deal to topple them.



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