SOC realignment

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one Oak
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby one Oak » Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:24 am

I think that would be good for getting Oak Hill and Northwest out of the SOC I, but I don't think the OVC would go for it.



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Re: SOC realignment

Postby trojandave » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:05 pm

Just as I have strongly criticized Portsmouth on this site for dropping Wheelersburg, I will also say that Northwest and Oak Hill should be in SOC II. Their enrollment is adequate enough to be able to compete.

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GoBucks1047
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby GoBucks1047 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:40 pm

one Oak wrote:I think that would be good for getting Oak Hill and Northwest out of the SOC I, but I don't think the OVC would go for it.


Something I thought about last night, say the SHAC adds football and/or decides to expand to 12 members (non-football sports), Northwest could be an option as a full-member or football-only along with maybe Georgetown (no football). The OVC certainly could look at Oak Hill if they ever decided to look at expansion to 10 or 12 at any point in the future.

High Roller
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby High Roller » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:20 pm

I think the OVC is fine the way it is. Competitive league with several improving programs.

The SOC needs to get its house in order.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby 4thgoal » Tue Dec 06, 2016 3:56 pm

Interesting that on the Arbiter site, it shows the Oak Hill vs. Wheelersburg game as a league game for 2017, but the 2016 game is a non-league game. I wonder if there is something there we don't know about yet?

Jeremy ghs05
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Jeremy ghs05 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:30 pm

Oak hill needs to move to soc 2 there school size is a lot bigger than green and the rest of soc1

osu 77
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby osu 77 » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:07 pm

I think the SOC is in trouble the next couple years. The league should have voted Ironton and Portsmouth in when they had a chance.

king kong
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby king kong » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:09 pm

You have 12 football playing schools, SOC I Notre Dame 48, East 59, Green 73 boys, Eastern 75, Symmes Valley 95, Oak Hill 152, Northwest 157.

SOC II Valley 128, Wheelersburg 147, Minford 175, West 184, Waverly 217.

You can only move 1 football school up to SOC II and that is Oak Hill. You cant have 7 and 5, unless you add and if Manchester comes in, Oak Hill has to move up.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby art_vandelay » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:39 pm

osu 77 wrote:I think the SOC is in trouble the next couple years. The league should have voted Ironton and Portsmouth in when they had a chance.


Trouble as in non-competitive? Or trouble as in schools leaving? Only possibilities of schools ever leaving I see would be Symmes Valley (OVC), Oak Hill (OVC) or Waverly (SVC). I agree though that Portsmouth/Ironton probably should be in SOC, but also understand certain schools' reasons for being against it.*

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Orange and Brown » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:29 pm

king kong wrote:You have 12 football playing schools, SOC I Notre Dame 48, East 59, Green 73 boys, Eastern 75, Symmes Valley 95, Oak Hill 152, Northwest 157.

SOC II Valley 128, Wheelersburg 147, Minford 175, West 184, Waverly 217.

You can only move 1 football school up to SOC II and that is Oak Hill. You cant have 7 and 5, unless you add and if Manchester comes in, Oak Hill has to move up.

You can have 7 and 5. It's not ideal but it's not impossible.
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby king kong » Thu Dec 08, 2016 4:50 pm

weeks 3, 4, and 5 non conference are a bear to find, especially competitive games.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Crab's Brother » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:20 pm

osu 77 wrote:I think the SOC is in trouble the next couple years. The league should have voted Ironton and Portsmouth in when they had a chance.


The SOC has thrived without either school and they will continue to do so. Ironton and Portsmouth need the SOC a whole helluva lot more than the other way around.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Orange and Brown » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:47 pm

king kong wrote:weeks 3, 4, and 5 non conference are a bear to find, especially competitive games.

The TVC Ohio has 7 teams and every team fills their non conference schedule. Yes, it can be a challenge for the teams who have their open week later in the season but it is doable.
NY plays their non conference games weeks 1,2,3,5
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby greygoose » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:14 am

Volunteer wrote:
greygoose wrote:
Volunteer wrote:Manchester has played green, Norte dame, and symmes valley the last few years.


Add East to that list as well. Haven't last 2 years I believe it is.

North Adams and west union now have football programs but are both club programs. They could get Fayetteville along with Manchester to form a shac football league in the next 2-3 years


Yeah I've heard that, heard Manchester could find itself in the SOC for a short amount of time. Until Peebles, West Union and North Adams all get their teams up and going and are not club teams them Fayetteville would probably be brought into the mix. There's at least 4 games out of the year that could really cut down on the drive time for all those teams involved.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby osu 77 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:49 am

Crab's Brother wrote:
osu 77 wrote:I think the SOC is in trouble the next couple years. The league should have voted Ironton and Portsmouth in when they had a chance.


The SOC has thrived without either school and they will continue to do so. Ironton and Portsmouth need the SOC a whole helluva lot more than the other way around.


I disagree there are not enough SOCII teams in the league anymore.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby 4thgoal » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:24 am

osu 77 wrote:I disagree there are not enough SOCII teams in the league anymore.

There are enough SOCII teams, just not all of them are playing in the SOCII right now. As a group, they need to force teams to move where they belong and then all is well.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby ArntonFartinTiger » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:55 am

you SOC people crack me up, a decade ago you all would never have heard of having Ironton or Portsmouth in your league. They were too good then. Now you all are clamoring to have them in your league, if they were to come in and in 5 years time become dominant again what would you all do then? Kick them out?

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby ArntonFartinTiger » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:56 am

How many times has Portsmouth been denied entry to the SOC? Just curious.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby greygoose » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:58 pm

ArntonFartinTiger wrote:you SOC people crack me up, a decade ago you all would never have heard of having Ironton or Portsmouth in your league. They were too good then. Now you all are clamoring to have them in your league, if they were to come in and in 5 years time become dominant again what would you all do then? Kick them out?


I don't believe anyone is "clamoring" for Ironton or Portsmouth. The guys with the actual power in the SOC really could care less if they wanted Portsmouth they would've already had them in there, they've even turned Portsmouth down during their down years they've had for about last 10 years now. Ironton until someone mentioned it on here I've never heard being associated with SOC just simple talk. SOC is simply content in where they stand, you guys get all worked up about the fact that Oak Hill and Northwest have X-amount of kids vs other SOC schools. Northwest was moved for competitive reasons plain and simple, and how did Northwest do this year? 1-9. So they belong exactly where they're at they haven't out grown SOCI teams from a competitive stand point, how many kids are on the team?? They've got less kids with that many more student bodies then some of the others in the division.

Oak Hill I can see an argument for, seen there game against Eastern and they must've had 3-4 times the amount of kids dressed compared to Eastern. Do I think they can compete with SOCII probably not yet but with those types of numbers I think they could develop into a team that could be competitive.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby BigBlueNation » Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:56 pm

greygoose wrote:
ArntonFartinTiger wrote:you SOC people crack me up, a decade ago you all would never have heard of having Ironton or Portsmouth in your league. They were too good then. Now you all are clamoring to have them in your league, if they were to come in and in 5 years time become dominant again what would you all do then? Kick them out?


I don't believe anyone is "clamoring" for Ironton or Portsmouth. The guys with the actual power in the SOC really could care less if they wanted Portsmouth they would've already had them in there, they've even turned Portsmouth down during their down years they've had for about last 10 years now. Ironton until someone mentioned it on here I've never heard being associated with SOC just simple talk. SOC is simply content in where they stand, you guys get all worked up about the fact that Oak Hill and Northwest have X-amount of kids vs other SOC schools. Northwest was moved for competitive reasons plain and simple, and how did Northwest do this year? 1-9. So they belong exactly where they're at they haven't out grown SOCI teams from a competitive stand point, how many kids are on the team?? They've got less kids with that many more student bodies then some of the others in the division.

Oak Hill I can see an argument for, seen there game against Eastern and they must've had 3-4 times the amount of kids dressed compared to Eastern. Do I think they can compete with SOCII probably not yet but with those types of numbers I think they could develop into a team that could be competitive.

Northwest was way down in Numbers and had a lot of injuries this past season. They have some good numbers and a lot of talent coming up. They'll have to move back up.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby greygoose » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:55 am

BigBlueNation wrote:
greygoose wrote:
ArntonFartinTiger wrote:you SOC people crack me up, a decade ago you all would never have heard of having Ironton or Portsmouth in your league. They were too good then. Now you all are clamoring to have them in your league, if they were to come in and in 5 years time become dominant again what would you all do then? Kick them out?


I don't believe anyone is "clamoring" for Ironton or Portsmouth. The guys with the actual power in the SOC really could care less if they wanted Portsmouth they would've already had them in there, they've even turned Portsmouth down during their down years they've had for about last 10 years now. Ironton until someone mentioned it on here I've never heard being associated with SOC just simple talk. SOC is simply content in where they stand, you guys get all worked up about the fact that Oak Hill and Northwest have X-amount of kids vs other SOC schools. Northwest was moved for competitive reasons plain and simple, and how did Northwest do this year? 1-9. So they belong exactly where they're at they haven't out grown SOCI teams from a competitive stand point, how many kids are on the team?? They've got less kids with that many more student bodies then some of the others in the division.

Oak Hill I can see an argument for, seen there game against Eastern and they must've had 3-4 times the amount of kids dressed compared to Eastern. Do I think they can compete with SOCII probably not yet but with those types of numbers I think they could develop into a team that could be competitive.

Northwest was way down in Numbers and had a lot of injuries this past season. They have some good numbers and a lot of talent coming up. They'll have to move back up.


I can't recall how many times I've heard that exact statement from people in regards to Northwest and what they have coming up. Yet, somehow it has yet to come true, was said of some teams in the 90s who still weren't able to beat Burg or Waverly. If they ever get to where they can compete year in and year out then sure they need moved back. Simply putting together 1 solid year every 20 years isn't justification in my mind nor is it in the SOC's otherwise they wouldn't have been moved in the 1st place.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Bucks06 » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:38 pm

rolltribe wrote:TVC just added Warren in football only no way they would add the Oaks. And people said Valley wouldn't be able to compete either when they moved up.


When did Warren get accepted into the TVC? I haven't heard this.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Omega » Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:09 pm

I know this is a non starter, as conference gold balls are coveted in Ohio high school football, but is it time for the OHSAA to consider district play?
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby thebarlowbandit » Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:18 am

Bucks06 wrote:
rolltribe wrote:TVC just added Warren in football only no way they would add the Oaks. And people said Valley wouldn't be able to compete either when they moved up.


When did Warren get accepted into the TVC? I haven't heard this.



They haven't, and it will not happen any time soon

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby ColdHardTruth » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:46 pm

Northwest remains a large part of the problem as they were moved back to allow for "restructuring" of their program to allow them to compete.
The problem with this is do Notre Dame and Green get to step back to "restructure" their programs? NO, They just have to take lumps for a few years until another competitive team comes along.
Put Northwest back in SOC2. Make them play in their conference. If you can't compete.. TUFF Ask Notre Dame and Green for advice on how to keep your program alive when you have year after year of setbacks.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby GoBucks1047 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:37 pm

Omega wrote:I know this is a non starter, as conference gold balls are coveted in Ohio high school football, but is it time for the OHSAA to consider district play?


When you say district play, are you meaning like Kentucky's districts? If so, I think it would make things worse because a lot of districts would require more travel even if divisions remain the same. I feel like Kentucky would be better off with conferences like Ohio and West Virginia that are more geographical and consist of teams around the same division, most teams in northeast KY are D3 and D4 based on their divisions except Raceland and Fairview (near Ashland), who would be perfect size-wise for the OVC, but their district is with Paintsville (hour and a half away) and the next closest school their size in Kentucky is either Pikeville or Bracken County around 2 hours away.

Districts are good when schools of similar size are close to each other, but when they are not, travel can be a nightmare. It seems like for smaller schools, the more rural, the better travel is, but for larger schools, travel is much better for city schools. The 6 division setup though could be reason for larger trips in KY. I have always thought the divisions in KY need decreased to 5, and decrease the number of playoff teams to 16 per division or 2 teams per district with 5-6 teams in a district rather than almost everyone make it; even winless teams. This got way off topic lol I guess to kind of keep it on topic.

Division IV, District 13: Circleville, Gallia Academy, Logan Elm, Meigs, Waverly, Washington C.H., Unioto
Division V, District 11: Fairland, Ironton, Oak Hill, River Valley, Rock Hill, South Point, Wellston
Division V, District 12: Minford, Northwest, Piketon, Portsmouth, West, Wheelersburg, Zane Trace
Division VI, District 12: Adena, Cheaspeake, Dawson-Bryant, Huntington-Ross, Paint Valley, Southeastern, Valley
Division VII, District 12: East, Eastern-Pike, Green, Manchester, Notre Dame, South Gallia, Symmes Valley
Top 2 Teams in a District make the playoffs. Most districts have 6-7 teams per district with 16 districts per division. Bolded teams represent the SOC football teams. Not a fan of this, but was certainly an interesting thought.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby The Oaf » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:21 am

osu 77 wrote:
Crab's Brother wrote:
osu 77 wrote:I think the SOC is in trouble the next couple years. The league should have voted Ironton and Portsmouth in when they had a chance.


The SOC has thrived without either school and they will continue to do so. Ironton and Portsmouth need the SOC a whole helluva lot more than the other way around.


I disagree there are not enough SOCII teams in the league anymore.


Agreed Crab, the SOC can have Ironton and PHS at any time they would want them. Both schools would accept invites before the ink is even dry on the contract.
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Omega » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:00 pm

GoBucks1047 wrote:
Omega wrote:I know this is a non starter, as conference gold balls are coveted in Ohio high school football, but is it time for the OHSAA to consider district play?


When you say district play, are you meaning like Kentucky's districts? If so, I think it would make things worse because a lot of districts would require more travel even if divisions remain the same. I feel like Kentucky would be better off with conferences like Ohio and West Virginia that are more geographical and consist of teams around the same division, most teams in northeast KY are D3 and D4 based on their divisions except Raceland and Fairview (near Ashland), who would be perfect size-wise for the OVC, but their district is with Paintsville (hour and a half away) and the next closest school their size in Kentucky is either Pikeville or Bracken County around 2 hours away.

Districts are good when schools of similar size are close to each other, but when they are not, travel can be a nightmare. It seems like for smaller schools, the more rural, the better travel is, but for larger schools, travel is much better for city schools. The 6 division setup though could be reason for larger trips in KY. I have always thought the divisions in KY need decreased to 5, and decrease the number of playoff teams to 16 per division or 2 teams per district with 5-6 teams in a district rather than almost everyone make it; even winless teams. This got way off topic lol I guess to kind of keep it on topic.

Division IV, District 13: Circleville, Gallia Academy, Logan Elm, Meigs, Waverly, Washington C.H., Unioto
Division V, District 11: Fairland, Ironton, Oak Hill, River Valley, Rock Hill, South Point, Wellston
Division V, District 12: Minford, Northwest, Piketon, Portsmouth, West, Wheelersburg, Zane Trace
Division VI, District 12: Adena, Cheaspeake, Dawson-Bryant, Huntington-Ross, Paint Valley, Southeastern, Valley
Division VII, District 12: East, Eastern-Pike, Green, Manchester, Notre Dame, South Gallia, Symmes Valley
Top 2 Teams in a District make the playoffs. Most districts have 6-7 teams per district with 16 districts per division. Bolded teams represent the SOC football teams. Not a fan of this, but was certainly an interesting thought.


Kentucky or South Carolina's system prompted my thought. Geography is always be a problem but at least district play would resolve most scheduling issues and playoff qualification would be based on head to head to competition.
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Westfan » Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:23 am

The Ohio Playoff system is fine. Only thing I would like to see is some type of bonus for strength of schedule. Right now you get no points for loosing to the best team in the state by one point. That needs corrected.

Northwest and Oak Hill should be made to play in the SOC II or go independent.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby js7_22 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:30 pm

Westfan wrote:The Ohio Playoff system is fine. Only thing I would like to see is some type of bonus for strength of schedule. Right now you get no points for loosing to the best team in the state by one point. That needs corrected.

Northwest and Oak Hill should be made to play in the SOC II or go independent.


Good luck with SOS on high school teams. The amount of work put into that would be astronomical to factor in.

Oak Hill could possibly jump ship and leave the SOC, leaving Northwest dangling between the conferences.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby GoBucks1047 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:31 pm

js7_22 wrote:
Westfan wrote:The Ohio Playoff system is fine. Only thing I would like to see is some type of bonus for strength of schedule. Right now you get no points for loosing to the best team in the state by one point. That needs corrected.

Northwest and Oak Hill should be made to play in the SOC II or go independent.


Good luck with SOS on high school teams. The amount of work put into that would be astronomical to factor in.

Oak Hill could possibly jump ship and leave the SOC, leaving Northwest dangling between the conferences.


I can see Oak Hill to the OVC along with River Valley or Raceland, but as long as Oak hill plays football in SOC I, I don't see Oak Hill leaving the SOC, and they don't join the OVC by themselves. River Valley returning would be nice, but without divisions, which I don't think the OVC wants to expand to begin with, I think River Valley stays in the TVC. If the OVC did ever expand, I think they take Oak Hill and River Valley, split into 2 5-team divisions with protected crossover rivalries, and play a 7-8 game conference schedule in football and 14-16 game conference schedule in other sports.

I think Raceland realistically could play in the OVC and their KY district games since they only have 2 district games in football and 6 district games for other sports in a 30 game season, but football would be the hardest for them as they play larger KY schools in their backyard and win at least in football, so if Raceland joined, I think it'd have to be non-football sports, which the OVC would probably want all sports to join, so not likely unless they want 12 for non-football and add Ironton St. Joe (doesn't have football) and then do 10 teams for football and play either 7-8 conference games or a round-robin. Again, unlikely any of this would happen.

The SOC in an instance where Oak Hill left could add Ironton St. Joe and move South Webster down to SOC I to make 10 for SOC I and 6 for SOC II non-football and leave football as it would be (6 in SOC I and 5 in SOC II). Then maybe see if they can take Portsmouth and Ironton for SOC II. It could be that or just go for Ironton or Portsmouth for SOC II to replace Oak Hill to bring non-football sports back to 8 and even football at 6-6 (SOC I-SOC II). I doubt any of what I say would actually happen, but it's interesting to think about what could happen.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby swbaseballfan » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:29 pm

Mad-Dogg wrote:What exactly is a club team


i was wondering the same thing. i graduated from south webster so that shows my high school football knowledge lol
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby GoBucks1047 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:45 pm

swbaseballfan wrote:
Mad-Dogg wrote:What exactly is a club team


i was wondering the same thing. i graduated from south webster so that shows my high school football knowledge lol


This was the closest definitation I could find under OHSAA in their general sports regulations. Hope it helps.

7.1) Definition of a Non-School Program or Team – A non-school (non-interscholastic) program, also known as a non-school team, is one in which a student-athlete participates in team play or as an individual, and that program or team is not under the direct or indirect control of the OHSAA member school. This means the OHSAA member school does not sponsor (one that is Board of Education- or other governing board-approved), supervise or have financial responsibility for that non-school program or team.

The non-school program or team may be composed of participants in grades 7 through 12 and may be located within or operate outside the OHSAA member school. Admission may be charged and fees or expenses may be collected for training and/or competitions sponsored by that non-school program or team. It is not necessary for a coach to be present or for instruction to be given for a program or team to be considered a non-school program or team.

Examples of or names associated with non-school programs or teams are: church, intramural, rec (recreation), YMCA, CYO, AAU, USAVB, USSF, USASwimming, all-star, club, non-interscholastic or any combination of players involved in team play.

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Re: SOC realignment

Postby Mad-Dogg » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:32 pm

GoBucks1047 wrote:
swbaseballfan wrote:
Mad-Dogg wrote:What exactly is a club team


i was wondering the same thing. i graduated from south webster so that shows my high school football knowledge lol


This was the closest definitation I could find under OHSAA in their general sports regulations. Hope it helps.

7.1) Definition of a Non-School Program or Team – A non-school (non-interscholastic) program, also known as a non-school team, is one in which a student-athlete participates in team play or as an individual, and that program or team is not under the direct or indirect control of the OHSAA member school. This means the OHSAA member school does not sponsor (one that is Board of Education- or other governing board-approved), supervise or have financial responsibility for that non-school program or team.

The non-school program or team may be composed of participants in grades 7 through 12 and may be located within or operate outside the OHSAA member school. Admission may be charged and fees or expenses may be collected for training and/or competitions sponsored by that non-school program or team. It is not necessary for a coach to be present or for instruction to be given for a program or team to be considered a non-school program or team.

Examples of or names associated with non-school programs or teams are: church, intramural, rec (recreation), YMCA, CYO, AAU, USAVB, USSF, USASwimming, all-star, club, non-interscholastic or any combination of players involved in team play.


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swbaseballfan
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Re: SOC realignment

Postby swbaseballfan » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:37 pm

sounds like a good thing, then more kids can play that might not have been able to
you will never catch a red light in webster!!


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